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Which of these 2nd basemen has the best case for HOF consideration?

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  • Which of these 2nd basemen has the best case for HOF consideration?

    I'm having a difficult time making a decision on who the 10th best 2nd baseman outside of Cooperstown is for the Suburbs of Cooperstown draft. Since I'm pretty evenly split on these guys, I thought I'd put it to a vote and go with the consensus for my pick. Here are the potential candidates:

    Buddy Myer
    George Grantham
    Jim Gilliam
    Chuck Knoblauch
    Steve Sax
    Bingo DeMoss
    Dick McAuliffe
    Davey Lopes

    I'll be taking a second baseman during the final round we will still be picking starters (round 14) which will probably take place in a week or two.
    22
    Buddy Myer
    36.36%
    8
    George Grantham
    0.00%
    0
    Jim Gilliam
    13.64%
    3
    Chick Knoblauch
    9.09%
    2
    Steve Sax
    9.09%
    2
    Bingo DeMoss
    0.00%
    0
    Dick McAuliffe
    13.64%
    3
    Davey Lopes
    18.18%
    4
    Last edited by jjpm74; 03-04-2008, 07:08 PM.

  • #2
    jjpm,
    Jim Gilliam already has my vote.
    But it occurs to me that you may want to consider Gil McDougald or Tony Phillips or another multi-position player. Bill James is keen on McDougald, seems to think he could have been a Hall of Famer at any one of the three positions.
    The best one may be from blackball before the Negro Leagues, Bill Monroe.

    Negro Leagues experts rank a few others above DeMoss, I believe, but 2B is also considered a weak position in the all-time lineup.
    For some reason 2B is the position or one position for almost all of the very early players who are remembered a little today: Sol White, Frank Grant, Charlie Grant, Grant Johnson (primary ss), Bill Monroe (primary 2b?). Unfortunately, these players were all in their primes by 1905 at latest, and over the hill or retired before there much data compiled.
    Last edited by Paul Wendt; 03-04-2008, 07:52 PM.

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    • #3
      I did look at McDougald. He looks good on paper, but his career was too short to be considered one of the 10 best not in Cooperstown IMO. I did have a look at Phillips prior to starting this poll as well. His numbers fall a little short for me.

      Thanks for the suggestions, though. One thing this draft has taught me is that the position of 2nd base is a lot deeper with HOF calibre players than I had previously thought.

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      • #4
        I guess I'd say Chuck Knoblauch.
        Hey, this is my public apology for suddenly disappearing and missing out on any projects I may have neglected.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
          I did look at McDougald. He looks good on paper, but his career was too short to be considered one of the 10 best not in Cooperstown IMO. I did have a look at Phillips prior to starting this poll as well. His numbers fall a little short for me.

          Thanks for the suggestions, though. One thing this draft has taught me is that the position of 2nd base is a lot deeper with HOF calibre players than I had previously thought.
          Taking a look last hour, I was surprised to notice many more SS-3b than SS-2b. I suppose it's the throwing arm and for the last 100 years the special role in turning the double play. I expected to see several 2b among the primary SS who might be worth suggesting, but I didn't see several.

          If you care about the simulation, Gilliam has the attraction that you may be able to pressure the Master successfully, to give him a little more than his mlb career alone.

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          • #6
            Some others to look at: Tom Daly (also C), Marty McManus (also 3B) and Billy Goodman (also 1B).

            Other Negro Leaguers are George Scales, Newt Allen and Sammy Hughes.
            Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

            Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

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            • #7
              Buddy Myer is a good 10th 2B pick.

              There's a Jimmy Williams and a Danny Murphy who you might want to look at for offensive punch.

              Is Fred Dunlap taken? I like him better than Myer.

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              • #8
                I wouldn't consider any of these guys for the HoF. Lopes or Gilliam may be the best of the bunch.
                Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by KCGHOST View Post
                  I wouldn't consider any of these guys for the HoF. Lopes or Gilliam may be the best of the bunch.
                  The question's not whether or not you'd consider them. I wouldn't consider any of them HOF material. The question's which one has the strongest case for HOF consideration.

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                  • #10
                    Buddy Myer, for his incredible similarity to Billy Herman, is at the top of my list. Herman may, or may not, have been the better player, but Herman's induction was aided by his association with the Dodgers and by his post-playing career.

                    This is a secondary point, but I wonder just how much of an effect being a coach or manager has on a player's HOF chances, particularly if that player begins his coaching or managing career immediately after hanging up his spikes. I'm sure the answer to this is knowable. I would note that a HOF prospect who is employed as a manager, or even as a coach, during the 5 year waiting period is having more contact with the writers who will, ultimately, decide the issue of the value of his playing career. There's every chance that such a player can enhance his chances by becoming friendly with writers in a way that could never happen if he were not in that position.
                    "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

                    NL President Ford Frick, 1947

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