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Welcome to the Ultimate Quest for Candidates! This thread will have the tenth poll in the first round, choosing the best candidates for the Hall of Fame from the MLB stars of the early 1970’s. You will be asked to vote for your top FIVE (5) players (out of 15); another thread with a companion poll will be posted for the stars of the late 1970's, where you will be asked to vote for your top SIX (6) players (out of 18). This decade has more candidates (33) than earlier decades because of expansion, as well as their recent vintage. None of these candidates were eligible for the HOF Veterans Committee before it was reformed in 2001; there’s still a lot of work to do. The polls will close five weeks after they open.
I’m asking voters not to peek at the results of the voting until after they’ve cast their ballot. I would hope that voters are capable of independently assessing the candidates without worrying about whom the consensus is favoring.
The threads in this project will always be posted a few days before the poll is added. This is done in order to encourage research and discussion of the candidates. I believe (paraphrasing Socrates) that the unexamined ballot is not worth casting. This also gives you a little time to make the case for a candidate not listed who you think deserves to be on the ballot (although you should sign up as a consultant if you really want to be involved in this aspect of the project).
If someone wants to open a separate thread to focus on one of these candidates, go for it; we already see that a lot on this forum. All of these players are worthy of discussion, because the worst candidates here are on a par with the worst players in the Hall.
I expect that everyone is familiar with Baseball-Reference.com and Baseballprospectus.com. These are essential sites for researching a player’s statistical record. I’ve also inserted links to each player’s bio at the SABR Bioproject or Wikipedia.
We will be judging players by the same criteria that the Hall of Fame uses:
“voting shall be based upon the individual's record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game.”
So everything counts, their lifetime achievements on and off the field, along with their character and other intangibles.
Below are the players we think are the top 40 candidates whose careers centered in the 1970’s. We will need to decide which seven of these to drop for the polls. Basic data are shown for each:
Pos – primary position(s)
BJ – rank at his position in the New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (2001)
Win Shares – shown are career total and best 3 years
WARP3 – from Baseball Prospectus; shown are career total and best 3 years (numbers in bold are increased for extra credit)
Other – Baker, Hargrove and Johnson were successful managers; Baylor not so much. Piniella I consider his primary HOF case to be as a manager and have not included him in this list.
I am thinking now that Fred Lynn should be placed in the 1980's. His WARP and win shares values both center in 1980, PA in 1982. However, his two monster years are in the 70's; 3 of his top 5 WARP3 and 4 of his top 5 WS are in the 70's. Opinions?
Some other things to be aware of:
1) Bill James’ rankings emphasize players’ peak years; this results in long steady careers being rated lower than what may seem right.
2) Win shares in strike seasons 1972 and 1981 are increased to adjust them to a 162-game season. In addition, 1981 has been gently normalized for surrounding seasons.
3) You are free to credit players with minor league or foreign league play. Smith and Johnson both had play in Japan.
I’m asking voters not to peek at the results of the voting until after they’ve cast their ballot. I would hope that voters are capable of independently assessing the candidates without worrying about whom the consensus is favoring.
The threads in this project will always be posted a few days before the poll is added. This is done in order to encourage research and discussion of the candidates. I believe (paraphrasing Socrates) that the unexamined ballot is not worth casting. This also gives you a little time to make the case for a candidate not listed who you think deserves to be on the ballot (although you should sign up as a consultant if you really want to be involved in this aspect of the project).
If someone wants to open a separate thread to focus on one of these candidates, go for it; we already see that a lot on this forum. All of these players are worthy of discussion, because the worst candidates here are on a par with the worst players in the Hall.
I expect that everyone is familiar with Baseball-Reference.com and Baseballprospectus.com. These are essential sites for researching a player’s statistical record. I’ve also inserted links to each player’s bio at the SABR Bioproject or Wikipedia.
We will be judging players by the same criteria that the Hall of Fame uses:
“voting shall be based upon the individual's record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game.”
So everything counts, their lifetime achievements on and off the field, along with their character and other intangibles.
Below are the players we think are the top 40 candidates whose careers centered in the 1970’s. We will need to decide which seven of these to drop for the polls. Basic data are shown for each:
Code:
Pos BJ Player Name Win Shares WARP3 Car WS Adj Other 7/m #54 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dusty_Baker"]Dusty Baker[/URL] (253: 24-24-23) (73.4: 8.4-7.9-6.6) +8 Mgr 14 yrs/1,162 wins,.527 5 #11 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal_Bando"]Sal Bando[/URL] (285: 36-31-29) (83.5: 9.2-9.1-8.5) +2 7/d #40 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Baylor"]Don Baylor[/URL] (268: 29-24-23) (74.6: 8.9-7.3-6.0) +6 Mgr 8.5 yrs/627 wins,.476 9 #15 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Bonds"]Bobby Bonds[/URL] (305: 32-32-31) (95.9: 10.8-10.0-9.9) +3 6 #25 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Campaneris"]Bert Campaneris[/URL] (282: 29-26-22) (102.4: 11.1-10.4-9.1) +2 8 #21 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Cedeno"]Cesar Cedeno[/URL] (303: 35-30-30) (87.6: 11.2-10.1-8.3) +7 5 #16 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Cey"]Ron Cey[/URL] (287: 27-27-25) (101.3: 10.8-10.0-9.7) +7 6 #26 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Concepcion"]Dave Concepcion[/URL] (278: 29-25-25) (107.6: 10.4-10.4-9.7) +9 5/3 #10 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrell_Evans"]Darrell Evans[/URL] (371: 31-28-28) (122.8: 12.5-10.8-9.0) +8 7 #34 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Foster_%28baseball%29"]George Foster[/URL] (279: 34-32-30) (88.5: 12.0-9.3-9.0) +10 3 #31 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Garvey"]Steve Garvey[/URL] (286: 27-26-25) (80.4: 8.9-8.7-7.9) +7 4 #12 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Grich"]Bobby Grich[/URL] (339: 32-31-30) (122.1: 12.3-11.4-9.9) +10 3/m #45 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Hargrove"]Mike Hargrove[/URL](220: 25-25-24) (73.1: 9.3-7.9-7.9) +8 Mgr 15 yrs/1,188 wins,.503 5/6 #32 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toby_Harrah"]Toby Harrah[/URL] (297: 32-28-27) (89.7: 10.8-9.0-8.6) +10 4/m #46 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davey_Johnson"]Davey Johnson[/URL] (172: 23-23-21) (57.6: 7.9-7.5-7.4) +1 Mgr 13 yrs/1,148 wins,.564 7 #35 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Luzinski"]Greg Luzinski[/URL](255: 30-28-27) (62.6: 7.6-7.3-6.8) +8 8 #17 [URL="http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=1320&pid=8554"]Fred Lynn[/URL] (284: 34-33-27) (84.6: 10.9-9.7-7.3) +4 2 #14 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurman_Munson"]Thurman Munson[/URL] (207: 26-25-24) (72.7: 9.6-9.6-8.0) +1 9/8 #17 [URL="http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=831&pid=10146"]Bobby Murcer[/URL] (281: 38-38-27) (65.6: 10.4-8.7-7.0) +4 broadcaster 5 #13 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graig_Nettles"]Graig Nettles[/URL] (327: 28-27-26) (107.9: 11.2-10.8-8.7) +6 8/3 #31 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Oliver"]Al Oliver[/URL] (313: 26-26-24) (86.0: 8.4-7.8-7.0) +8 8 #22 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amos_Otis"]Amos Otis[/URL] (293: 29-29-27) (77.5: 9.0-8.3-7.8) +7 9 #14 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Parker"]Dave Parker[/URL] (331: 37-33-31) (86.3: 10.4-9.1-8.5) +4 2 #18 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrell_Porter"]Darrell Porter[/URL] (227: 31-23-19) (77.0: 11.2-7.8-7.6) +5 2 #10 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Simmons"]Ted Simmons[/URL] (321: 30-28-28) (96.3: 9.0-8.4-8.3) +6 9 #18 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Singleton"]Ken Singleton[/URL] (310: 36-33-32) (87.8: 10.4-9.8-8.8) +8 9/8 #20 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Smith"]Reggie Smith[/URL] (326: 29-29-27) (89.8: 9.4-9.1-7.2) +1 9 #24 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusty_Staub"]Rusty Staub[/URL] (361: 32-30-28) (100.2: 10.5-9.2-7.4) +3 2/3 #23 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Tenace"]Gene Tenace[/URL] (236: 32-26-25) (71.8: 10.3-8.4-8.1) +5 7 #25 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_White"]Roy White[/URL] (264: 34-29-29) (88.1: 10.3-10.0-9.8) +1 1 #86 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vida_Blue"]Vida Blue[/URL] (206: 30-25-22) (78.3: 11.4-9.8-8.0) +4 1 #39 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Blyleven"]Bert Blyleven[/URL](346: 29-23-23) (146.7: 13.2-10.5-10.4) +7 1 #63 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_John"]Tommy John[/URL] (295: 23-19-19) (113.1: 8.7-7.7-7.1) +6 1 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Koosman"]Jerry Koosman[/URL] (244: 25-23-23) (92.3: 9.9-8.4-7.5) +4 1 #72 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Lolich"]Mickey Lolich[/URL] (225: 29-27-20) (82.5: 10.2-9.0-7.7) +1 1 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparky_Lyle"]Sparky Lyle[/URL] (164: 20-19-16) (60.5: 7.4-6.5-5.8) +3 1 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Marshall_%28baseball_pitcher%29"]Mike Marshall[/URL](148: 23-23-23) (64.3: 11.0-9.7-9.4) +2 1 #81 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Reuschel"]Rick Reuschel[/URL](244: 26-20-20) (102.4: 12.1-9.3-7.9) +4 1 #52 [URL="http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=645&pid=14207"]Luis Tiant[/URL] (258: 29-28-22) (100.4: 10.6-10.6-8.7) +2 1 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur_Wood"]Wilbur Wood[/URL] (192: 33-31-23) (80.7: 14.7-11.8-10.1) +2
BJ – rank at his position in the New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (2001)
Win Shares – shown are career total and best 3 years
WARP3 – from Baseball Prospectus; shown are career total and best 3 years (numbers in bold are increased for extra credit)
Other – Baker, Hargrove and Johnson were successful managers; Baylor not so much. Piniella I consider his primary HOF case to be as a manager and have not included him in this list.
I am thinking now that Fred Lynn should be placed in the 1980's. His WARP and win shares values both center in 1980, PA in 1982. However, his two monster years are in the 70's; 3 of his top 5 WARP3 and 4 of his top 5 WS are in the 70's. Opinions?
Some other things to be aware of:
1) Bill James’ rankings emphasize players’ peak years; this results in long steady careers being rated lower than what may seem right.
2) Win shares in strike seasons 1972 and 1981 are increased to adjust them to a 162-game season. In addition, 1981 has been gently normalized for surrounding seasons.
3) You are free to credit players with minor league or foreign league play. Smith and Johnson both had play in Japan.
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