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The Ultimate Quest for Candidates: Round 1 – The 1970’s (part 1)

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  • #16
    Cut Mike Hargrove and Dusty Baker, their managerial days do not take them out of the hole.
    Cut Roy White, Don Baylor, Wilbur Wood, & Bobby Murcer.
    A 7th would be Rick Reuschel.

    Davey Johnson is spared by his managing.

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    • #17
      As far as relievers go, I'd be in favor of adding Sparky Lyle to this ballot. He is slightly better than Mike Marshall, IMO who was very good but can be cut to make room for Lyle if necessary (assuming you want at least 1 reliever).

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      • #18
        --I agree Lyle is a better candidate than some on the ballot. I also agree Dusty Baker is next in line for cutting after the 5 I previously mentioned. As for the pitchers, there are several I wouldn't support (maybe none) but I think they are all at least in the discussion. I may be biased though - these are the stars of my childhood.

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        • #19
          --Three guys in this group I support without reservation; Blyleven, Grich and Simmons. Nine more who I'm on the fence on; Bando, Bonds, Cedeno, Lynn (starting for me in the Suburbs of Cooperstown project) , Munson, Nettles (on my BBFHoF ballot), Parker (voted for when he made the BBFHoF, John and Tiant. It is certainly possible I could be convinced on others, although I don't think I've ever supported any of the rest at any point.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
            As far as relievers go, I'd be in favor of adding Sparky Lyle to this ballot. He is slightly better than Mike Marshall, IMO who was very good but can be cut to make room for Lyle if necessary (assuming you want at least 1 reliever).
            I think if you add Lyle, he'd be the 2nd best pitcher (after Blyleven) of the lot.
            A very worthy addition, much stronger than Marshall.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by dgarza View Post
              A very worthy addition, much stronger than Marshall.
              Lyle was pretty consistent and compiled higher career totals than Marshall in most stats. The uberstats (win shares, WARP3) give Lyle a slight edge in career value. Marshall's big edge is his in-season durability. Compare their top 8 years in RelIP:

              MM SL
              208 137
              179 114
              141 112
              116 108
              111 104
              109 103
              099 095
              099 095

              Consequently, win shares likes Marshall's peak much more than Lyle's. Top 5 seasons in AWS:

              MM SL
              23 20
              23 19
              23 16
              21 14
              14 14
              Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

              Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

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              • #22
                I'm still looking for input in our little straw poll regarding who will be left off the ballots. So far, Baylor is the overwhelming choice to be ousted. The three player-manager hybrids (Baker, Hargrove, Johnson) are also favorites for dropping, along with Blue, Wood and Harrah.

                I'll probably swap in Lyle for Marshall. And I'm still not sure what I'll do with Lynn (keep him here or send him to the 80's).
                Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Baylor for sure to be dropped. Johnson, unlike Hargrove and Baker, was actually a good manager. I'd leave him on and drop the other two. Luzinski would be my fourth cut. Harrah makes five, and for a pitcher, I'd say Koosman or Blue.

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                  • #24
                    marshall on the web, on the ballot?

                    Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                    I'll probably swap in Lyle for Marshall.
                    If the managers go, keep 'em both and add John Hiller too.

                    By the way, for lots of reading on Marshall's science and instruction, search for
                    mike marshall kinesiology
                    .
                    Someone knows how to get a webpage up among google priorities.
                    The first listed title is now MIKE MARSHALL IS A CHARLATAN.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      --Johnson I think is more a manager who gets a boost to his candidacy by having been a good player than a player who gets a boost by also having been a good manager. IMO you have to be almost there in one category or the other for the combination to work. Johnson is not one of the 20 best 2B's outside Cooperstown. He probably is one of the 10 best best managers outside.
                      --Baker I don't see as close in either role. If he wins anything with the Reds he does turn himself into a viable manager candidate. Hargrove is not close either way. Ditto for Baylor.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Paul Wendt View Post
                        If the managers go, keep 'em both and add John Hiller too.
                        Well, Tug McGraw is in the same class as those three. The uberstats hate relievers; there's no way I'm gonna list four (or three; or two) of them. HOF voters gave the most love to Lyle, by far. Marshall has always been a controversial figure so it's hard to give him extra credit for anything.
                        Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                        Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          --If you are going to limit the poll to one reliever then I'd go with Lyle. He is closest to my consideration set, although none of them are actually in it.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by leecemark View Post
                            -- Ditto for Baylor.
                            Although Baylor is one of the Top 10 DHs not in the Hall. Whoopie

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I suggest dropping Baker, Blue, Hargrove, Harrah and Wood and swapping Lyle for Marshall. Johnson's managerial career is this close to being Hall worthy on its own. His combined playing-managing career makes him a serious candidate for this; the same can't be said for the other player/manager guys here.

                              As for my ballot choices, I've got Blyleven, Grich and Simmons down for sure. I'm trying to sort through Evans, Munson, Lyle, Nettles, Tiant and some outfielders for the final spots.

                              Any thoughts on ranking Bonds, Murcer, Parker, Smith and White?

                              EDIT: Considering how many players at other positions I think merit consideration, I can't really justify the third best OF (or worse) on this list making my short list, so Smith, Murcer and White are gone. That leaves my consideration set as follows:
                              Sure things: Blyleven, Grich, Simmons
                              Who do I cut? Bonds, Evans, Munson, Lyle, Nettles, Parker, Tiant

                              BTW...this is definitely the most thought-provoking decade yet!

                              I suppose it all depends on how these guys are divided (into early and late 70's)?
                              Last edited by Chadwick; 03-12-2008, 07:44 AM.
                              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Classic View Post
                                Any thoughts on ranking Bonds, Murcer, Parker, Smith and White?
                                Bonds, Parker, and Smith come up now and again as players with strong (although not solid) HOF cases.
                                I have never heard Mucer nor White's names come up in such discussions.
                                And I agree with both trends.

                                Comment

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