Hall of Fame Needs a Lifetime Achievement Classification

[Freakshow]

In another thread, Jim posted this about Buck O'Neil:

O'Neil isn't a guy I support for any one reason. He wasn't good enough as a player, I doubt that as a manager alone he was enough, scouts haven't found a home in the Hall--but he was significant in all three areas. Add to it his role as an ambassador for the game and especially for the Negro Leagues (think Ken Burns) and his work to create the Negro League HOF, the sum of his contributions is so great that it deserves to be recognized by the Hall.

That's absolutely right. And there are other players who contributed their life to the game, helping it to thrive and perpetuate. Lke Buck, they never quite gained the notoriety necessary in any one area to be elected to Cooperstown, yet the sum of their contributions would have to be considered as great as some players elected to the Hall with 14 years played and little else on their resume.

I submit that the HOF needs a new classification. Call it Lifetime Achievement (LA) or Contributor. If you make it a separate award like they give the Writers and broadcasters I think you're belittling the lives of these men. Indeed, there are probably a couple Frick and Spink awardees who deserve plaques, but writers and broadcasters are not eligible for inclusion with the regular members.

I'm thinking of this sort of criteria for the LA category:

At least 30 years in the game as a MLB or minor league player, manager, coach, umpire, scout, GM, broadcaster, author, writer, entertainer, executive or other contributor.

Besides Buck O'Neil, who else comes to mind as being a strong candidate for this HOF Lifetime Achievement classification?

[jjpm74]

Don Zimmer comes to mind.

[stejay]

Sounds like a good idea. Scouts, Little League coaches that have made a great contributution to baseball, and also individuals who help the community through baseball.

[Freakshow]

Sounds like a good idea. Scouts, Little League coaches that have made a great contributution to baseball, and also individuals who help the community through baseball.

Who do you have in mind? Candidates, please.

[stejay]

Who do you have in mind? Candidates, please.

I can't name many little league coaches, and Community voulnteers really

[Chickazoola]

Jimmie Reese, Paul Krichell, Tony Lucadello, Cy Slapnicka, Lefty O'Doul are just a few.

They should have something similar to the Ford Frick award for announcers. There have been lots of amazing people in this game who deserve recognition.

[dgarza]

At least 35 years in the game as a MLB or minor league player, manager, coach, umpire, GM, broadcaster, author, writer, mascot, executive or other contributor.

35 years seems rather excessive.
Players come up at 20 years of age, but few GMs or execs start that young. Many would pass on before they even become eligible.
Perhaps 20 years? Players only need 10.

[soberdennis]

In a sense there already is such and award. It is called the Hall of Fame.
But they usually look for a specific area where a person warrants induction-Player, Manager, Umpire, or Contributor. I could see this award for people whose overall contributions warrant mention, but no single area stands out.
Names like Zimmer and Reese have already been mentioned. I think that Roger Craig, Jim Turner, and Art Fowler may be considered for their contributions as pitching coach, along with being a player and, in Craig's case, manager.

[Chickazoola]

In a sense there already is such and award. It is called the Hall of Fame.
But they usually look for a specific area where a person warrants induction-Player, Manager, Umpire, or Contributor. I could see this award for people whose overall contributions warrant mention, but no single area stands out.
Names like Zimmer and Reese have already been mentioned. I think that Roger Craig, Jim Turner, and Art Fowler may be considered for their contributions as pitching coach, along with being a player and, in Craig's case, manager.

The problem with that is that the Hall of Fame has ignored coaches and scouts entirely. Managers, umpires, and executives have all been elected, but no coaches or scouts have been considered.

[dgarza]

In a sense there already is such and award. It is called the Hall of Fame.

I pretty much agree with this. What's the HOF if not a LA award?
The HOF just need to keep it's eyes and minds open more.

But they usually look for a specific area where a person warrants induction-Player, Manager, Umpire, or Contributor. I could see this award for people whose overall contributions warrant mention, but no single area stands out.
Names like Zimmer and Reese have already been mentioned. I think that Roger Craig, Jim Turner, and Art Fowler may be considered for their contributions as pitching coach, along with being a player and, in Craig's case, manager.

Most of the names mentioned should not be in the HOF. Zimmer and Craig would be like Harold Baines or Jesse Orosco in the HOF. The only names I have heard mentioned that would make sense are O'Neil and O'Doul.
You should get into the HOF by being great at what you're great at. The summation of several "good" areas shouldn't get you into the Hall. Feels too much like padding stats.

[jjpm74]

What about Tony Lucadello? Lucadello is considered by quite a few people to have been the best scout in baseball and he helped revolutionize the role of a scout in baseball.

[Freakshow]

A few points:

--As was said, the Hall has no way of honoring achievements in things like coaching and scouting, along with authors, mascots and other contributors that make baseball the wonderful game we all love.
--Despite what it's rules say, the Hall has failed to honor people who have contributed to the game in multiple ways over the course of their lifetime.
--Longevity is a hallmark of greatness. Meteors are brilliant for a moment; stars shine forever. Both are worthy of honor by the HOF.
--The idea of the new classification is not to flood the HOF with undistinguished nobodies. I'm thinking of electing one every five years. Yes, Buck O'Neil. Yes, Lefty O'Doul. That gives us ten years to decide who #3 would be.

[Paul Wendt]

limitations

I pretty much agree with this. What's the HOF if not a LA award?
The HOF just need to keep it's eyes and minds open more.

The rules seem to require that everyone elected by the committees on veterans --since 1953?-- is classified as a manager, or as an umpire, or etc. But the committee members are not asked to limit their attention to one category of a candidates work. Because the committees meet in person (except for electing recent players), they are able to discuss all of a candidates baseball career.

Unfortunately for varied contributions, the latest version appoints different people to different committees --eg, a committee for consideration of managers and umpires. So it is likely that no one with more complex contribution (eg, a combination other than manager plus umpire) will ever be on the agenda --whether the agenda is set by the committee members or by someone else in a preliminary nominating/screening stage.

If a crucial part of someone's resume is advancement of baseball outside North American, as for Lefty O'Doul and Japan, that only makes it less likely, more impossible!, to be considered.

Further, the specialization of the committees implies that their members will be appointed for special expertise or experience.

[Chadwick]

The Lifetime Achievement Award (which should have been the sole way to honor all non-player members of the Hall in the first place) is a great idea and I'd suggest the following as the kind of people to honor, just off the top of my head:

Doc Adams
Lee Allen
Roger Angell
Sy Berger
Charles Conlon
Robert Creamer
L. Robert Davids
Charlie Dressen
Ted Giannoulas
Gil Hodges
Bill James
Frank Jobe
Paul Krichell
Mike Marshall
Leo Mazzone
Buck O'Neil
Pete Palmer
Max Patkin
Robert Peterson
Hal Richman
Francis Richter
Lawrence Ritter
Johnny Sain

[Freakshow]

The Lifetime Achievement Award (which should have been the sole way to honor all non-player members of the Hall in the first place) is a great idea and I'd suggest the following as the kind of people to honor, just off the top of my head:

Doc Adams
Lee Allen
Roger Angell
Sy Berger
Charles Conlon
Robert Creamer
L. Robert Davids
Charlie Dressen
Ted Giannoulas
Gil Hodges
Bill James
Frank Jobe
Paul Krichell
Mike Marshall
Leo Mazzone
Buck O'Neil
Pete Palmer
Max Patkin
Robert Peterson
Hal Richman
Francis Richter
Lawrence Ritter
Johnny Sain

That is SPOT-ON, Brad.

When you stop and think for a couple minutes, a lot of names start pouring out that the HOF is incapable of honoring with a plaque. Maybe one of these needs to be elected more often than every five years.

It also points out a pernicious effect of the Frick and Spink award winners. Those men are "in the hall of fame", but they are not hall of famers; they don't have a plaque. And they can't, under present criteria.

Well, that's just wrong. Look at the rosters of winners:

Frick Award

1978 — Mel Allen, Red Barber
1979 — Bob Elson
1980 — Russ Hodges
1981 — Ernie Harwell
1982 — Vin Scully
1983 — Jack Brickhouse
1984 — Curt Gowdy
1985 — Buck Canel
1986 — Bob Prince
1987 — Jack Buck
1988 — Lindsey Nelson
1989 — Harry Caray
1990 — By Saam
1991 — Joe Garagiola
1992 — Milo Hamilton
1993 — Chuck Thompson
1994 — Bob Murphy
1995 — Bob Wolff
1996 — Herb Carneal
1997 — Jimmy Dudley
1998 — Jaime Jarrin
1999 — Arch McDonald
2000 — Marty Brennaman
2001 — Rafael "Felo" Ramírez
2002 — Harry Kalas
2003 — Bob Uecker
2004 — Lon Simmons
2005 — Jerry Coleman
2006 — Gene Elston
2007 — Denny Matthews
2008 — Dave Niehaus

Spink Award

1962 — J.G. Taylor Spink
1963 — Ring Lardner
1964 — Hugh Fullerton
1965 — Charles Dryden
1966 — Grantland Rice
1967 — Damon Runyon
1968 — Harry G. Salsinger
1969 — Sid Mercer
1970 — Heywood C. Broun
1971 — Frank Graham
1972 — Dan Daniel, Fred Lieb, J. Roy Stockton
1973 — Warren Brown, John Drebinger,
John F. Kieran
1974 — John Carmichael, James Isaminger
1975 — Tom Meany, Shirley Povich
1976 — Harold Kaese, Red Smith
1977 — Gordon Cobbledick, Edgar Munzel
1978 — Tim Murnane, Dick Young
1979 — Bob Broeg, Tommy Holmes
1980 — Joe Reichler, Milton Richman
1981 — Allen Lewis, Bob Addie
1982 — Si Burick
1983 — Ken Smith
1984 — Joe McGuff
1985 — Earl Lawson
1986 — Jack Lang
1987 — Jim Murray
1988 — Bob Hunter, Ray Kelly
1989 — Jerome Holtzman
1990 — Phil Collier
1991 — Ritter Collett
1992 — Leonard Koppett, Bus Saidt
1993 — Wendell Smith
1994 — No Award Presented
1995 — Joseph Durso
1996 — Charley Feeney
1997 — Sam Lacy
1998 — Bob Stevens
1999 — Hal Lebovitz
2000 — Ross Newhan
2001 — Joe Falls
2002 — Hal McCoy
2003 — Murray Chass
2004 — Peter Gammons
2005 — Tracy Ringolsby
2006 — Rick Hummel
2008* — Larry Whiteside

This "honor", similar to the players, has become watered down, conflating legends of the game with a buncha "who's hes?" There are a few men here that deserve a plaque, to be elected to the Hall of Fame. Men who were widely acknowledged as being the best of the best; who set a standard that succeeding generations aspired to attain. They deserve to be more than just a name on a list. But rather than give them their due, the HOF decided to shunt them off to their own little corner of the Hall, apart from the hall of famers. It ain't right.