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Welcome to the Ultimate Quest for Candidates! This thread will have the 12th poll in this round, choosing the best candidates for the Hall of Fame from the stars of the 1860’s and 1870’s. You will be asked to vote for your top SIX (6) players. The poll will close a month after it opens.
I’m asking voters not to peek at the results of the voting until after they’ve cast their ballot. I would hope that voters are capable of independently assessing the candidates without worrying about whom the consensus is favoring.
The threads in this project will always be posted a few days before the poll is added. This is done in order to encourage research and discussion of the candidates. I believe (paraphrasing Socrates) that the unexamined ballot is not worth casting. This also gives you a little time to make the case for a candidate not listed who you think deserves to be on the ballot (although you should sign up as a consultant if you really want to be involved in this aspect of the project).
If someone wants to open a separate thread to focus on one of these candidates, go for it; we already see that a lot on this forum. All of these players are worthy of discussion, because the worst candidates here are on a par with the worst players in the Hall.
You are highly encouraged to research the historical record for these pioneer players. The statistical record is difficult to interpret and often sketchy. I expect that everyone is familiar with Baseball-Reference.com and Baseballprospectus.com. These are essential sites for researching a player’s statistical record. I’ve also inserted links to each player’s bio at the SABR Bioproject or Wikipedia.
We will be judging players by the same criteria that the Hall of Fame uses:
“voting shall be based upon the individual's record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game.”
So everything counts, their lifetime achievements on and off the field, along with their character and other intangibles.
Below are the players we think are the top 21 candidates whose careers centered in the 1860’s/70’s. We will need to decide which three of these to drop for the poll. Basic data are shown for each:
Pos – primary position(s)
BJ – rank at his position in the New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (2001)
Win Shares – shown are career total and best 3 years
WARP3 – from Baseball Prospectus; shown are career total and best 3 years, from 1871-on.
Other –
Some other things to be aware of:
1) Win shares are omitted here. That system was never designed to correctly value players of this era.
2) Due to Bill James timeline, player’s rank at his position is lower than it ought to be IMO. I would increase their standing by about 80%. For example, a timeline-free Deacon White would be ranked about #15 at 3B rather than #76; Joe Start would be #21 at 1B rather than #107.
3) You should look to credit these players with minor league or pre-professional play. I have not systematically attempted this.
I’m asking voters not to peek at the results of the voting until after they’ve cast their ballot. I would hope that voters are capable of independently assessing the candidates without worrying about whom the consensus is favoring.
The threads in this project will always be posted a few days before the poll is added. This is done in order to encourage research and discussion of the candidates. I believe (paraphrasing Socrates) that the unexamined ballot is not worth casting. This also gives you a little time to make the case for a candidate not listed who you think deserves to be on the ballot (although you should sign up as a consultant if you really want to be involved in this aspect of the project).
If someone wants to open a separate thread to focus on one of these candidates, go for it; we already see that a lot on this forum. All of these players are worthy of discussion, because the worst candidates here are on a par with the worst players in the Hall.
You are highly encouraged to research the historical record for these pioneer players. The statistical record is difficult to interpret and often sketchy. I expect that everyone is familiar with Baseball-Reference.com and Baseballprospectus.com. These are essential sites for researching a player’s statistical record. I’ve also inserted links to each player’s bio at the SABR Bioproject or Wikipedia.
We will be judging players by the same criteria that the Hall of Fame uses:
“voting shall be based upon the individual's record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game.”
So everything counts, their lifetime achievements on and off the field, along with their character and other intangibles.
Below are the players we think are the top 21 candidates whose careers centered in the 1860’s/70’s. We will need to decide which three of these to drop for the poll. Basic data are shown for each:
Code:
Pos BJ Player Name Career WARP3 4 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Barnes"]Ross Barnes[/URL] 1868-81 (79.1: 15.5-14.7-13.1) 1 #97 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Bond_%28baseball%29"]Tommy Bond[/URL] 1874-84 (26.6: 10.5-6.1-6.1) 1 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asa_Brainard"]Asa Brainard[/URL] 1860-74 4 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Burdock"]Jack Burdock[/URL] 1872-88 (38.0: 8.4-5.0-4.6) 2 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Clapp_%28baseball%29"]John Clapp[/URL] 1872-83 (49.1: 8.8-6.7-6.0) 1 --- [URL="http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=770&pid=16900"]Jim Creighton[/URL] 1858-62 5 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ferguson_%28baseball%29"]Bob Ferguson[/URL] 1866-84 (32.7: 7.9-4.2-4.0) mgr 13.5 yrs 6 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Force"]Davy Force[/URL] 1867-86 (52.2: 13.7-6.7-5.7) 1 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Mathews"]Bobby Mathews[/URL] 1869-87 (11.2: 7.4-5.7-2.6) 1 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_McBride"]Dick McBride[/URL] 1861-76 2/3 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal_McVey"]Cal McVey[/URL] 1869-79 (56.0: 11.3-9.1-7.0) 5 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levi_Meyerle"]Levi Meyerle[/URL] 1869-77 (41.4: 10.2-6.5-6.4) 6 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Pearce"]Dickey Pearce[/URL] 1856-77 6 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Peters_%28baseball_shortstop%29"]John Peters[/URL] 1873-84 (29.6: 8.1-6.8-6.0) 8/4 --- [URL="http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=31&pid=11267"]Lip Pike[/URL] 1866-78 (52.8: 11.8-8.7-8.5) 4 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Reach"]Al Reach[/URL] 1861-75 3 #107 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Start"]Joe Start[/URL] 1862-86 (65.3: 7.0-6.6-6.5) 5 #98 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Sutton"]Ezra Sutton[/URL] 1870-88 (82.7: 9.2-8.7-8.4) 5/2 #76 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacon_White"]Deacon White[/URL] 1869-90 (109.4: 10.5-10.4-9.1) 7 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_York_%28baseball_player%29"]Tom York[/URL] 1870-85 (61.8: 7.7-7.2-7.1) 1 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zettlein"]George Zettlein[/URL] 1865-76
BJ – rank at his position in the New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (2001)
Win Shares – shown are career total and best 3 years
WARP3 – from Baseball Prospectus; shown are career total and best 3 years, from 1871-on.
Other –
Some other things to be aware of:
1) Win shares are omitted here. That system was never designed to correctly value players of this era.
2) Due to Bill James timeline, player’s rank at his position is lower than it ought to be IMO. I would increase their standing by about 80%. For example, a timeline-free Deacon White would be ranked about #15 at 3B rather than #76; Joe Start would be #21 at 1B rather than #107.
3) You should look to credit these players with minor league or pre-professional play. I have not systematically attempted this.
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