Tim Hudson

[blade1969]

I was just thinking of Tim Husdon today, and then I saw this thread. I was actually thinking of starting a Tim Hudson thread, comparing him to Roy Halladay. I actually think he could wind up a borderline Hall of Famer, but he is one of the most unappreciated pitchers is this generation. Look at some of their career stats:
Snap1.jpg
Hudson and Halladay are virtually identical in Won-Loss Record, ERA, and Innings Pitched. These are probably three of the main stats Hall of Fame voters look at. However, I think Halladay is well ahead of Hudson. For one, he was the best pitcher in baseball for ten tears (2002-2011) whereas Hudson was never the best pitcher in baseball. Halladay is ahead of Hudson in ERA+ by a not insignificant margin, and also has a better WHIP, and is well ahead in strikeouts, strikout rate, and walk rate. Basically, he's ahead in all of the peripherals. He's also got 2 Cys, two second place finishes, and one third place finish. Hudson has one second place finish, his only top three result.
Anyway, while Halladay is clearly (to me) the better pitcher, I was shocked at noticing today how incredibly similar most of their key career stats are. Keeping in mind that Hudson, though one year older, seems to have more left than Halladay, it's not inconceivable that he winds up his career ahead of Halladay in wins, winning percentage, and ERA, though I doubt anyone, even then, will argue that he was the better pitchers.

[Los Bravos]

David Schoenfeld pretty much hits the nail on the head.

[Cowtipper]

After breaking his ankle just a short while ago, Hudson's career now appears in jeopardy. If it is over, do you think his current resume is enough to merit Hall of Fame election?

205-111 W-L
.649 W%
3.44 ERA
124 ERA+
3 All-Star selections
2010 Comeback Player of the Year Award
142 grey ink
55.4 WAR

[jjpm74]

After breaking his ankle just a short while ago, Hudson's career now appears in jeopardy. If it is over, do you think his current resume is enough to merit Hall of Fame election?

205-111 W-L
.649 W%
3.44 ERA
124 ERA+
3 All-Star selections
2010 Comeback Player of the Year Award
142 grey ink
55.4 WAR

He is a really tough call. Some additional impressive stats:

2813.2 IP to go with that 124 ERA+
His batting WAR is 1.7 to give him a total WAR of 57.1
His WAA is 31.2 which puts him ahead of at least 30 pitchers currently in the HOF

It's a close call. Tim Hudson may become the SABR darling du jour behind Mike Mussina.

He falls just short for me. If he can come back and get past 3000 IPs while keeping that ERA+ up, he gets in for me.

[Los Bravos]

Probably not, at least not for a long while. If he comes up short Bob Wickman, Dan Kolb and a whole posse of other ragamuffin bums who I watched methodically piss away wins that he had earned will be major culprits.

I wouldn't give up on his career just yet. If it's physically possible to come back and he decides that he wants it, it will happen.

[rsuriyop]

If his career ended today, I would have to say no. He's had a medium-length career with no truly standout seasons. He's been consistently good for a while. But that isn't enough for me. That being said, he's probably better than the worst seven or eight pitchers currently in the Hall. But of course they don't count since they're probably all mistakes anyway.

[Bothrops Atrox]

He'd probably be in my top 5 on the outside, right now.

[PVNICK]

I had the same thought when I saw the injury. The IP looks a bit light. I'd have to give it some thought. Perhaps in ten to twenty years the IP may be a product of the way starters are handled currently, rather the by product of an injury interrupted (x2) career.

[Cowtipper]

As time progresses, baseball and its Hall of Fame voters are going to have to start to re-evaluate how pitchers are selected. Gone are the days of the 15 complete game pitchers, gone are the days, largely, of the 200 innings pitched pitchers, gone are the days of the 300 strikeout pitchers. With starters being used more conservatively, they are getting fewer and fewer chances to rack up lofty career totals.

Hudson will be an interesting case if and when the re-evaluation takes place. He has the percentages of a borderline Hall of Famer - .649 W%, 124 ERA+, 3.44 ERA. He has decent sabermetric statistics. His career totals aren't too high, but that's a result of the era he's pitched in. If he can come back and win 230 games in his career, I think writers will have to start taking serious looks at him - by the time he is eligible, 250 will likely have become the next 300 and 230 may be the next 250.

[Los Bravos]

That's pretty much been my position, generally and also specifically for Huddy, for a while.

[bluesky5]

Would he go in in an A's or Braves cap?

[Los Bravos]

He played 6 years in Oakland. He's been in Atlanta for 9, now.

[leecemark]

Wow! I wouldn't have guessed that. Still remember him best as an A. Of course as a Mariners fan I saw him pitch for them many times, while not so many since he was traded to Atlanta.

[csh19792001]

He played 6 years in Oakland. He's been in Atlanta for 9, now.

I was always a huge fan of Hudson. How many pitchers have had a .702 winning percentage after 6 years in the league?

He's a much better pitcher than Andy Pettitte was, yet will he ever get any HOF votes? Doubt it. Will Pettitte? Absolutely.

His numbers through age 37 mirror those of Mike Mussina, who I think might actually be a legit Hall of Famer. (And I'm for a VERY contracted HOF, more than most here, esp after reading books such as this one):

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1596915455/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=3930507777&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=844470019587551275&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_57rmm96bxl_b

Hell of an article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/29/books/29mcgrath.html?_r=0

Are people aware of how many NY players got inducted solely on cronyism? The Veterans' Committee was one of the most corrupt enterprises baseball has ever thrown out there....

[jjpm74]

I was always a huge fan of Hudson. How many pitchers have had a .702 winning percentage after 6 years in the league?

He's a much better pitcher than Andy Pettitte was, yet will he ever get any HOF votes? Doubt it. Will Pettitte? Absolutely.

His numbers through age 37 mirror those of Mike Mussina, who I think might actually be a legit Hall of Famer. (And I'm for a VERY contracted HOF, more than most here, esp after reading books such as this one):

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1596915455/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=3930507777&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=844470019587551275&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_57rmm96bxl_b

Hell of an article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/29/books/29mcgrath.html?_r=0

Are people aware of how many NY players got inducted solely on cronyism? The Veterans' Committee was one of the most corrupt enterprises baseball has ever thrown out there....

I would be very surprised if Hudson does not get attention from the voters when he retires. That said, I do not consider him a HOFer. His career numbers are not good enough and he lacks a strong peak.