Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Tim Hudson

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Sliding Billy View Post
    WAR is actually a pretty good predictor of HOF membership for starting pitchers:

    Of the 38 pitchers with WAR between 50 and 60, including Hudson at 56, 8 are in, 30 are out. If you look at Hudson's WAR peers you see a lot of near-misses or shoulda beens, depending on your point of view.

    Of the 15 with WAR between 60 and 65, 10 are in and 5 are out.

    So the split results here seem to agree with Hudson's WAR and the electors' track record. Two or three decent seasons in the twilight of his career might help his cause a lot.
    Yeah -I think 60 is close to the 50/50 mark. My point was that WAA is better in looking at modern guys due to the whole replacement/usage pattern thing.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

    Comment


    • While Hudson reached the 2000 strikeout milestone in 2014, he went 9-13 to drop him back to 90 wins over .500 (214-124). If he had continued on with his string of over .500 seasons he would have reached 100 wins over .500 by 2014 or 2015 and that would have cemented his place in my personal Hall Of Fame. He'll put off retirement for at least one more season since he's under contract for 2015, when he will turn 40. If he finishes his career poorly, I'm not so certain he's a Hall Of Famer.

      Comment


      • Curious how others evaluate Hudson vs. Andy Pettitte?
        Chadwick
        Rolen on to Cooperstown
        Last edited by Chadwick; 10-21-2014, 11:41 PM.
        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Brad Harris View Post
          Curious how evaluate Hudson vs. Andy Pettitte?
          Pettitte's best 2 seasons were probably better than anything Hudson did. But the bulk of his other seasons were all a step behind Hudson's seasons. I'd take Hudson's constant really-goodness over Pettitte's wider gap.

          That is why I would put Hudson borderline-in and Pettitte borderline-out.

          But they aren't too far apart.
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
            Pettitte's best 2 seasons were probably better than anything Hudson did. But the bulk of his other seasons were all a step behind Hudson's seasons. I'd take Hudson's constant really-goodness over Pettitte's wider gap.

            That is why I would put Hudson borderline-in and Pettitte borderline-out.

            But they aren't too far apart.
            I like this assessment. I think I tossed Pettitte in mine, and will do the same with Hudson when he retires. I think i just have a tad lower line though.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
              Yeah -I think 60 is close to the 50/50 mark. My point was that WAA is better in looking at modern guys due to the whole replacement/usage pattern thing.
              Oh, yes, I didn't mean to take issue with that. There's a whole source of value that has sort of dried up.
              The ball once struck off,
              Away flies the boy
              To the next destin'd post,
              And then home with joy.
              --Anonymous, 1744

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sliding Billy View Post
                Oh, yes, I didn't mean to take issue with that. There's a whole source of value that has sort of dried up.
                Well not dried up...distributed to relievers.
                1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
                  Well not dried up...distributed to relievers.
                  Ironic that as the innings eaten by great starters has dissipated, the innings of great relievers has not increased, merely the total innings of all relievers. I can't understand any logical justification for the fad of the modern bullpen usage pattern. Damn you, Tony LaRussa!
                  "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                  "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                  "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                  "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Brad Harris View Post
                    Ironic that as the innings eaten by great starters has dissipated, the innings of great relievers has not increased, merely the total innings of all relievers. I can't understand any logical justification for the fad of the modern bullpen usage pattern. Damn you, Tony LaRussa!
                    Specialization. 3 pitchers can mix and match for handedness and throw harder and not have to face an order twice, etc. And it works. Reliever's ERA relative to starters has continued to improve the more specialization has occurred. Relievers now have ERAs 25% better than starters.
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Brad Harris View Post
                      Curious how evaluate Hudson vs. Andy Pettitte?
                      Well, one is an on the record cheater.
                      3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Los Bravos View Post
                        Well, one is an on the record cheater.
                        Dammit, Jim...I'm a baseball fan, not a moralist. I'm talking about their records, man, their records.
                        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                        Comment


                        • You can't accurately judge Pettitte's record without reference to that fact, Bones.
                          3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

                          Comment


                          • Grant Brisbee does his usual stellar job of laying out the case.
                            3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Brad Harris View Post
                              Ironic that as the innings eaten by great starters has dissipated, the innings of great relievers has not increased, merely the total innings of all relievers. I can't understand any logical justification for the fad of the modern bullpen usage pattern. Damn you, Tony LaRussa!
                              It's bad for baseball. I'd like to see a limit on the number of pitchers that can be used per inning. Sometimes sports need to be saved from over-coaching that takes away from the game experience. Such as basketball implementing the shot clock. They should eliminate the hack-a-shaq strategy too but that's for a different time.
                              bluesky5
                              Registered User
                              Last edited by bluesky5; 09-09-2015, 06:09 PM.
                              "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
                                It's bad for baseball. I'd like to see a limit on the number of pitchers that can be used per inning. Sometimes sports need to be saved from over-coaching that takes away from the game experience. Such as basketball implementing the shot clock. They should eliminate the hack-a-shaq strategy too but that's for a different time.
                                Its one of those things like throwing the ball down field 40 yards at the end of the game knowing a Pass Interference will be called 50% of the time or Hack-A-Shaq, like you said. Effective and legal but boring and gimicky. I'd be fine with rules eliminating these two examples, but I am not sure there are any rules that can be put into play here. And make no mistake; hyper-specialization of bullpen is effective. And it is a little boring. But what can be done about it. Same thing with shifts. Legal and effective. What can be done other than grinnning and bearing it?

                                Heck, the NJ Devils won 3 titles and forever turned a fast-paced, graceful, slick, offensively beautiful game into soccer on ice by their blasted winger-as-defender traps. Not to mention Dean Smith's 4-corners. And none of these things lasted. If you are patient enough, who knows what we will see. But koodos for these guys for finding schticks that helped win. I'd probably do the same.

                                Now, it is very true that modern pitchers are not held to the same counting stat standards as the old guys. We are going to have a 20 year stretch of pitchers with only a very small handful making the HOF.
                                Bothrops Atrox
                                IDC/ZRC/NJC*/*
                                Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 09-09-2015, 07:03 PM.
                                1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                                1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                                1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                                The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                                The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                                Comment

                                Ad Widget

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X