Originally posted by Sliding Billy
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Tim Hudson
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1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011
1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013
1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015
The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History
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While Hudson reached the 2000 strikeout milestone in 2014, he went 9-13 to drop him back to 90 wins over .500 (214-124). If he had continued on with his string of over .500 seasons he would have reached 100 wins over .500 by 2014 or 2015 and that would have cemented his place in my personal Hall Of Fame. He'll put off retirement for at least one more season since he's under contract for 2015, when he will turn 40. If he finishes his career poorly, I'm not so certain he's a Hall Of Famer.
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Curious how others evaluate Hudson vs. Andy Pettitte?Last edited by Chadwick; 10-21-2014, 10:41 PM."It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
"I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
"You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
"There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe
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Originally posted by Brad Harris View PostCurious how evaluate Hudson vs. Andy Pettitte?
That is why I would put Hudson borderline-in and Pettitte borderline-out.
But they aren't too far apart.1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011
1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013
1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015
The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History
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Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View PostPettitte's best 2 seasons were probably better than anything Hudson did. But the bulk of his other seasons were all a step behind Hudson's seasons. I'd take Hudson's constant really-goodness over Pettitte's wider gap.
That is why I would put Hudson borderline-in and Pettitte borderline-out.
But they aren't too far apart.
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Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View PostYeah -I think 60 is close to the 50/50 mark. My point was that WAA is better in looking at modern guys due to the whole replacement/usage pattern thing.The ball once struck off,
Away flies the boy
To the next destin'd post,
And then home with joy.
--Anonymous, 1744
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Originally posted by Sliding Billy View PostOh, yes, I didn't mean to take issue with that. There's a whole source of value that has sort of dried up.1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011
1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013
1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015
The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History
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Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View PostWell not dried up...distributed to relievers."It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
"I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
"You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
"There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe
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Originally posted by Brad Harris View PostIronic that as the innings eaten by great starters has dissipated, the innings of great relievers has not increased, merely the total innings of all relievers. I can't understand any logical justification for the fad of the modern bullpen usage pattern. Damn you, Tony LaRussa!1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011
1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013
1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015
The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History
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Originally posted by Los Bravos View PostWell, one is an on the record cheater."It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
"I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
"You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
"There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe
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Grant Brisbee does his usual stellar job of laying out the case.3 6 10 21 25 29 31 35 41 42 44 47
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Originally posted by Brad Harris View PostIronic that as the innings eaten by great starters has dissipated, the innings of great relievers has not increased, merely the total innings of all relievers. I can't understand any logical justification for the fad of the modern bullpen usage pattern. Damn you, Tony LaRussa!Last edited by bluesky5; 09-09-2015, 05:09 PM."No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”
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Originally posted by bluesky5 View PostIt's bad for baseball. I'd like to see a limit on the number of pitchers that can be used per inning. Sometimes sports need to be saved from over-coaching that takes away from the game experience. Such as basketball implementing the shot clock. They should eliminate the hack-a-shaq strategy too but that's for a different time.
Heck, the NJ Devils won 3 titles and forever turned a fast-paced, graceful, slick, offensively beautiful game into soccer on ice by their blasted winger-as-defender traps. Not to mention Dean Smith's 4-corners. And none of these things lasted. If you are patient enough, who knows what we will see. But koodos for these guys for finding schticks that helped win. I'd probably do the same.
Now, it is very true that modern pitchers are not held to the same counting stat standards as the old guys. We are going to have a 20 year stretch of pitchers with only a very small handful making the HOF.Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 09-09-2015, 06:03 PM.1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011
1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013
1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015
The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History
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