Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Tim Hudson

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • willshad
    replied
    Sabathia
    Hudson
    Pettite
    Beuhrle

    Sabathia was the best of the group due to not only having longevity, but a nice peak as well. From 2007-2011 he was95-40 with a 142 ERA+ and 240 IP per season. He also had several more good years outside his peak, though his 2013-2015 stretch is very problematic. He comes across as an underachiever: a guy who should have breezed past 300 wins and should have gotten more strikeouts due to his immense size.

    Hudson also seems like somewhat of an underachiever, an ace in his early days but never really put it all together. He was over .500 every season until his very last two seasons. Reminds me of Mike Mussina with a shorter career.

    Pettite has overall numbers similar to Sabathia, but never really came across as an 'ace'. A ton of pretty good seasons, but only two or three standout ones. The PED issue further muddies his waters.

    Buehrle is another guy who never came across as an ace, and never had a 'peak' to speak of.. He was a reliable 200 IP guy who never missed time. He amazingly was only under .500 one time (12-13 in 2006) but he was usually AROUND .500.

    None of these guys are HOFers to me.
    Last edited by willshad; 08-17-2019, 03:24 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bravesfan1984
    replied
    The problem is what in his career stands out. He does have 3 top 5 CY finishes and that looks good until you realize that is 3 in 17 years. He won 20 games one year but his ERA was 4.14 and the year he won 18 games his ERA was 3.37. So he has some good things going for him but when you look closer they are not as great as they seem.

    Leave a comment:


  • bluesky5
    replied
    My heart tells me Hudson > Sabathia from the '3 Aces' A's days but I think C.C. is certainly ahead. I'd have Buehrle ahead of Pettitte.

    Leave a comment:


  • blacknwhiterose
    replied
    Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

    CC
    Pettitte
    Hudson
    Buehrle

    But I have the bottom 3 all between 81-88 and I could be convinced they belong in any order.
    I have:

    CC
    Hudson
    Pettitte
    Buehrle

    Pettitte consistently trails Hudson in most rate/value stats. By rate/value/win probability, Hudson and CC are very similar, while Pettitte is a notch below and Buehrle another notch down.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chadwick
    replied
    Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

    CC
    Pettitte
    Hudson
    Buehrle

    But I have the bottom 3 all between 81-88 and I could be convinced they belong in any order.
    That's the order I have them in, too. I don't know exactly what rank each is, but it's that order. I can say that I see each of them as a top 100 pitcher all-time and that I think anyone in the top 100 pitchers after 149 seasons belongs in Cooperstown.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bothrops Atrox
    replied
    Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
    How would you rank the following Hall of Fame candidates?

    Mark Buehrle
    Tim Hudson
    Andy Pettitte
    CC Sabathia
    CC
    Pettitte
    Hudson
    Buehrle

    But I have the bottom 3 all between 81-88 and I could be convinced they belong in any order.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chadwick
    replied
    Potential BBWAA Ballot Tenure
    2019-2028 Andy Pettite
    2021-2030 Mark Buehrle
    2021-2030 Tim Hudson
    2025-2034 CC Sabathia

    First, I should point out that we're not going to see any other pitchers hit the ballot worth looking at other than the aforementioned, at least until Verlander, Greinke and Scherzer begin showing up. (Sorry, Joe Nathan.)

    Pettitte, Buehrle and Hudson could be on the ballot together for two years between Clemens/Schilling falling off (2022) and Sabathia entering (2025). They are all second-tier candidates; borderline or better than borderline Hall of Famers, but certainly belong the standard of guys like Glavine, Schilling, Mussina or Halladay. I agree about Sabathia so I suppose the real question is how one would rank the other three.

    Even if all three remain above the 5 percent line for 10 years, I'm hard pressed to identify a distinguishing characteristic of one case that would elevate it over the others.

    I am surpised that Pedro sees a "big gap" between Buehrle and Hudson. In their playing days, Hudson was thought of as an ace and Buehrle also seemed like a compiler. Of course that's just my impression - feel free to chime in with your own - and that's hardly a basis for analysis. I'm just throwing out that I was surprised that it's more than a marginal difference for someone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cougar
    replied
    Originally posted by pedrosrotatorcuff View Post

    In terms of worthiness:

    Sabathia
    (gap)
    Pettitte
    Buehrle

    (big gap)

    Hudson

    In terms of likelihood of election, change "big" to "massive".
    Why so down on Hudson relative to the other three?

    Leave a comment:


  • Cougar
    replied
    Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
    How would you rank the following Hall of Fame candidates?

    Mark Buehrle
    Tim Hudson
    Andy Pettitte
    CC Sabathia
    Interesting question. They are all within a couple of WAR of each other; was that what prompted your question?

    Hudson's career ERA is the lowest by far, but that may be more due to him pitching more in the NL than the others (and in particular avoiding the AL East).

    I'd probably concur with PRC above, CC, Andy, Buerhle, Hudson. While CC is a clear number one, I don't feel at all strongly about the rank order of the other three men.

    Leave a comment:


  • pedrosrotatorcuff
    replied
    Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
    How would you rank the following Hall of Fame candidates?

    Mark Buehrle
    Tim Hudson
    Andy Pettitte
    CC Sabathia
    In terms of worthiness:

    Sabathia
    (gap)
    Pettitte
    Buehrle

    (big gap)

    Hudson

    In terms of likelihood of election, change "big" to "massive".

    Leave a comment:


  • Chadwick
    replied
    How would you rank the following Hall of Fame candidates?

    Mark Buehrle
    Tim Hudson
    Andy Pettitte
    CC Sabathia

    Leave a comment:


  • blacknwhiterose
    replied
    Originally posted by Los Bravos View Post

    Post hoc ergo propter hoc isn't much of an argument

    2000 - One start in the ALDS against the Yankees. 8 IP 4R (3ER) took the loss. Not overwhelming but not exactly "ineffective"

    2001 - ALDS game 2 start, 8 innings 0 R took the win. I think that qualifies as effective.
    ALDS game 5 1.2 innings in relief, 1 ER, ND.

    2002 - ALDS game 1 start 5.1 innings 4 ER. Kind of "Meh" but not exactly ineffective
    ALDS game 4 start 3.1 innings 7 R (2 ER) Okay, that one qualifies

    2003 - ALDS Game 1 start 6.2 IP 3 ER ND Again, not "ineffective"
    ALDS Game 4 start 1 IP, left with an injury

    2005 - NLDS Game 1 start 6.2 IP 5 ER Again, rather meh but he didn't get bombed or anything
    NLDS Game 4 start 7 IP 3 ER ND because of that bum Farnsworth

    2014 - NLDS Game 2 start 7.1 IP 1 ER 8K very effective
    NLCS Game 3 start 6.1 IP 4 ER
    WS game 3 start 5.2 IP 3 ER
    WS game 7 start 1.2 IP 3 ER

    His overall postseason ERA was 3.69. That included 2.89 in 3 NLDS and 3.44 in 4 ALDS.

    You can make a case that those numbers aren't exactly the stuff of legend but "ineffective", at least as a descriptive term for his overall October record, simply doesn't fit.

    Huddy also started game 1 in the Braves' 2010 postseason LDS vs San Francisco:

    2010 NLDS Game 1 start 7 IP 1 R (0 ER) ND

    Leave a comment:


  • Fuzzy Bear
    replied
    Hudson, I predict, will stay on the ballot, but will not come near induction.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chadwick
    replied
    I doubt Hudson will get the necessary 5 percent in 2021. He should, but it's unlikely.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bothrops Atrox
    replied
    Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

    So this is about semantics? Do you like the work insignificant better? Hudson did nothing in the post season to help his HOF case. There will not be any Jack Morris type support for him and there will be some who use his "insignificant" post season resume against him. Better?

    It really is going to take a tremendous amount of campaigning to get Hudson into the HOF. I personally don't think he should just be dismissed, but also won't be campaigning for him. His career falls into that nebulous gray area where so many other durable pitchers fall.
    I said exactly what my opinions are RE: Hudson and his postseasons. Insignificant is perfect.

    Leave a comment:

Ad Widget

Collapse
Working...
X