Veterans Committee membership, 1994 to 2001 meetings

[Paul Wendt]

Note 2009-02-03
Sometimes this thread is the temporary location for some Hall of Fame election history beyond even the 50-year membership of the famous Veterans Committee.
10. Historical Overview Committee for elections 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008
18. committee on pre-1943 veterans (2008 for "2009")
19. Negro Leagues Committee, 1971-77 new today
20. NLC members (1971?) today
According to plan I use a new thread when the material seem enough to warrant that. Please refer to the directory, history of Hall of Fame elections.


Does anyone here know the HOF Vets Cmte membership for any of the 1994-2001 elections? During this time the VC met annually and seven times beginning 1995 considered 19th century and Negro Leagues candidates on separate ballots (thereby electing some of them).

1.
Bill James, Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame? (1995 ppb ed. of The Politics of Glory), page 259-260 is a list of VC members and their terms in "yyyy to zzzz" format. Here are the 15 members listed as "yyyy to present". I suppose they are the members for the winter 1994 meeting but I hope to confirm that as well as cover 1995-2001.

Buzzie Bavasi
Jack Brickhouse
Bob Broeg
Joe Brown
Monte Irvin
Allen Lewis
Al Lopez
Edgar Munzel
Stan Musial
Buck O'Neill
Gabe Paul
Shirley Povich
Charles Segar
Birdie Tebbetts
Ted Williams

2.
Sometime in 1996 there were at least six members not listed by Bill James for ?1994. Probably the 1996 and/or 1997 Cmte comprised this six-pack plus nine of the ?1994 members listed by James.

Yogi Berra
Pee Wee Reese
Bill White
Hank Peters
Ken Coleman
Leonard Koppett

3.
Ken Coleman and John McHale were the two 2001 members whose terms continued at least through 2003, the first election of the new regime

more about Vets Cmte membership (#27-28 posted yesterday next door)

[Paul Wendt]

faster than a speeding bullet

Why not google this topic? So I did, moments ago
"Veterans Committee members 2001"

The fourth title is promising . . .
oh, it is my own post to baseball-fever, cataloged by Google 17 minutes later !?!
> https://www.baseball-fever.com/showt...ewpost&t=75953 - 17 minutes ago -

[Chadwick]

Ken Coleman and John McHale were the two 2001 members whose terms continued at least through 2003, the first election of the new regime

If I'm not mistaken, 2003 was the last election in which Coleman was eligible to vote. McHale voted in the 2005 and 2007 elections also, however, before he was disenfranchised.

As far as the voter list, I used to have a comprehensive one on my old computer, but I'm not sure if that file was transferred to my new one or not. I'll see what I can dig up. Dan might very well have the information, however.

[Freakshow]

I've never researched this topic. I suggest going to Internet Archive and looking up old pages from the baseballhalloffame.org website. That should fill in the last few years.

EDIT: OK, here's VC talk from the March 1998 edition of the HOF newsletter Around the Horn:

TAMPA TALK: The Veterans Committee meets on March 3rd in Tampa, Florida�The 15-member committee, which is comprised (in equal parts) of writers, executives and Hall of Famers, will function as a 14-member committee this year with the absence of Monte Irvin who recently retired�The committee is charged with examining the careers of former major leaguers, Negro leaguers, umpires, executives and managers�The committee may elect up to four members.

 	Hall of Fame Player	Executive	Media Member 
 	Yogi Berra	   Joe Brown (chairman)	Bob Broeg
 	Stan Musial	      Buzzie Bavasi	Ken Coleman
 	Pee Wee Reese	      Buck O�Neil	Jerome Holtzman
 	Ted Williams	      Hank Peters	Len Koppett
 	 	              Bill White	Allen Lewis

TO EARN ELECTION: The Veterans� Committee will place between zero and four members in Cooperstown as a result of votes on four ballots�The nominee with the most votes in each category will earn election to the Hall of Fame, provided he is named on 75% of the ballots�The four ballots include (1) former major leaguers; (2) a composite ballot of Negro Leaguers, umpires, executives and managers; (3) 19th century players & personnel, and; (4) Negro Leaguers�With 14 members expected to vote in 1997, a minimum of 11 votes will be necessary for election.

RULES REVISION: Prior to the 1995 vote, the Hall of Fame�s Board of Directors revised the rules for election within the Veterans Committee to enhance the possibility of electing qualified 19th century personnel and Negro League players to the Hall of Fame�For a five-year period from 1995-99, the Veterans Committee has a supplemental vote in each of two more specific categories: Negro Leaguers and 19th century players & personnel.

1997 REVISITED: Last year the Veterans Committee elected three people to the Hall of Fame: Nellie Fox (former major leaguer ballot), Tom Lasorda (composite ballot) and Willie Wells (Negro League special ballot).

REGULAR VISITS: The Veterans Committee has met regularly every year beginning with 1961�In the 37 meetings from 1961-97, the committee has elected 84 members�The committee has failed to elect a candidate three times in those 37 meetings: 1993, 1990 and 1988.

ON THEIR WAY: For a player who started his career after 1945 to earn a look by the Veterans Committee, he must have received 100 votes in any one BBWAA election up to and including the 1991 one, or, 60% of the votes on all ballots cast in any one BBWAA election�Upcoming carry-overs from recent BBWAA ballots who may be considered by the Veterans Committee in future years include Orlando Cepeda & Ken Boyer (1998), Tony Oliva (2000) and Ron Santo (2002)�Also of note, Sparky Anderson first becomes eligible in 2000, turning 65 in February of 1999.

[steve rogers]

I like what you're doing with this stuff Paul. Keep it up it's very interesting.

From 1994 -2001 I think the VC did a fanastic job. They really did their homework on some very deserving candidates. Not all were great but they put in a few guys that might never have gotten in but should have long ago. I wonder if Bill James' book had anything to do with it.

My favorites from the time period:
1994 - Leo Durocher
1995 - Richie Ashburn
1996 - Jim Bunning, Ned Hanlon (finally!!!!!), Nellie Fox
1997 - Willie Wells
1998 - Bullet Rogan, George Davis (should have been in 50 years ago)
1999 - Orlando Cepeda, Joe Williams, Frank Selee (Hanlon and Selee could make cases for being the best managers ever or at least being the most influencial)
2000 - Turkey Stearns, Bid McPhee (another guy that should have been elected 50 years ago)
2001 - Bill Mazeroski (maybe the the greatest fielder of all time), Hilton Smith

And there's been no one elected since then, Except the Negro League special election which did a poor job IMO especially considering who was on that committee. Effa Manley? Really? Minnie Minoso and Dick Redding should have been on there. And the Buck O'Neil thing was a travesty.

Scott

[Paul Wendt]

That's a lot of favorites!
and you left out William Hulbert who should have been elected more than 50 years earlier.

For 1995-2001 the Veterans Committee considered recommendations by the SABR Negro Leagues Cmte and by a committee of historians who were all members of the SABR 19th Century Cmte (but this was not a cmte function). I don't know whether lists prepared by those consulting committees were ever used directly as the special ballots for Negro Leagues and 19th century candidates, or who in the Hall of Fame may have been involved intermediately.

In fact they elected the maximum one from the Negro Leagues ballot every year (seven) but they whiffed a few times on the 19th century ballot and elected only two players, Davis and McPhee. Vic Willis was a regular VC candidate.

[steve rogers]

I had Hulbert on there, I must have deleted it accidently. IMO those years were the best job a VC did since it's inception. Not all the electee's were great (Rizzuto, I think he's deserving, but borderline) but the imput from those SABR committee's really helped. Hanlon, Selee, Davis and Mcphee had been on the top my short list of deserving but overlooked figures since I started looking at the Hall of Fame objectivly. It's no accident that the influence of the SABR made those selections go through.

It's too bad the don't have SABR members on a VC type committee, but that would take some common sense from the Hall of Fame, of which they have very little. They continue to use former players in that capacity which is OK, but to have the VC committee made up entirely of former players is a big mistake. Frankie Frisch comes to mind again.

Scott

[Paul Wendt]

tidbits but no lists of members

[add: At around midnight and around 6pm today I was not able to access many past editions of the NBHOFM website (baseballhalloffame.org) via the Internet Archive. Winter 1999 yes, but I did not find any list of VC members, certainly not in two editions of "Around the Horn", but not all of those are available. Several more recent than 1999 either crashed the firefox webbrowser or returned an error message from the Archive. ]
If someone else is able to find more, please post here.

--
Mazeroski- and Hoy-oriented webpages from years ago note that their campaigns mailed to all 15 members of the VC but they do not report the members.

According to "Maz and the 1996 Vet's Committee vote"
>>
After the March 1996 vote, where Jim Bunning was elected by the Vet's Committee [someone reported]:
According to an article in the *Chicago Tribune*, Maz only received 5 votes. 11 were needed for election. Both Bunning and Nellie Fox had 11 or more votes, but since the Vet's can only bring in one player a year, Bunning, who recieved 12 votes was the winner. There were several players who had more votes than Maz--Larry Doby, Dom DiMaggio, and someone else who's name is escaping me. Joe Gordon also got some votes, but I can't remember if he had more than Maz or not."
<<

Joe L. Brown missed the 1996 meeting

--
Gleaned from 2001 coverage:

When Maz was elected in 2001, the "elated Joe Brown" made the announcement.

The Pirates ballclub had mailed a packet of Maz materials to 950 sportswriters in the preceding month.

Ted Williams missed the 2001 meeting

Maz had missed by one vote in 2000, with 10 of the 11 necessary. That implies someone missed the 2000 meeting (else 12/15 would have been necessary.)

--
From: Baseball Digest | Date: 11/1/2001 | Author: KUENSTER, JOHN (Expansion of Veterans Committee, A Good Idea)
>>
. . .
"I think it is a good idea," official major league historian Jerome Holtzman said regarding the move. "I'm not sure just how it will work out in practice, but it strikes me that it will be easier for qualified candidates to get elected."
Holtzman served on the 15-man Veterans Committee for four years.
. . .
"I would guess, it will be more difficult for old-time candidates to be elected," agreed Bob Broeg, legendary St. Louis baseball writer who served on the Veterans Committee from 1972 through 2000.
<<

[Paul Wendt]

[afterword. That's all for me today. The list of members at time of the 2001 reform would be the single most valuable membership list.]

gleaned from coverage of the 2000 election (Sparky Anderson, Turkey Stearnes, Bid McPhee)

Dave Anderson's column NYT 2005-03-05 column (Sports of the Times: A Hodges Campaign With Love)
Buck O'Neil missed the meeting
"notable" members of the committee
- players Aaron, Williams, Musial
- executives Brown, White
- news media members Koppett, Holtzman
[Hank Aaron is a new name here.]

That cast is expected to change next year.
A recent bylaw is no more than two consecutive three-year terms
Quoting chairman of the board Ed Stack, 'Starting next year, some current members will be rotating off the committee each year.'

Jack Curry's news coverage NYT 2005-03-01
>>
There was controversy during today's meeting as the members were told not to vote for Dick Williams, the former manager . . . He was the runner-up in the voting last year. But Williams pleaded no contest to charges of indecent exposure . . .
At least one committee member challenged the directive . . .
<<

In the vote for players, Mazeroski scored 10 needing 11. Hodges "fell three or four votes shy"

--
gleaned from coverage of the 2001 reform

Alan Robinson (AP), in Atlanta Daily World 2001-08-09 "Baseball Hall of Fame Revamps Voting System"
juicy quotations from hofer Joe Morgan that it was too easy to get in
citation "some Hall of Famers - including Ted Williams - were unhappy the fielding whiz [Mazeroski] was elected this year by the former Veterans Committee headed by Joe L. Brown, the Pittsburgh Pirates' general manager throughout Mazeroski's 17-year Pirates career."
[Unless someone else moved to the Maz camp, he was elected only because Williams missed the meeting]

[Paul Wendt]

Historical Overview Committee for elections 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008

For the 2003, 2005, and 2007 Veterans Committee elections a 10-man Historical Overview Committee nominated 200 players and 60 other contributors, the semifinalists. The final ballots comprised 25-30 players and 15 other contributors from those lists.
For the 2008 elections (December 2007) an 11-man Historical Overview Committee developed the final ballot comprising 10 managers and umpires.
The 12 voters for executives, including 7 current and former executives, wrote their own final ballot of 10. See the NBHOFM press release 2007 Nov 8, also quoted below.

Historical Overview Committee comprising BBWAA members
3 5 7 8
x x x x Bob Elliott (Toronto Sun), 05 07 08
x x x x Steve Hirdt (Elias Sports Bureau), 05 07 008
x x x x Rick Hummel (St. Louis Post-Dispatch), 05 07 08
x x x x Moss Klein (Newark Star-Ledger), 05 07 08
x x x x Bill Madden (New York Daily News), 05 07 08
x x x x Ken Nigro (former Baltimore Sun writer), 05 07 08
x x x x Jack O'Connell (The Hartford Courant 05 07 and BBWAA officer 07; mlb.com and NBHOFM reporter 08),
x o x x Nick Peters (The Sacramento Bee), 07 08
x x o x Tracy Ringolsby (Rocky Mountain News), 05 08
x o x x Dave Van Dyck (Chicago Tribune), 07 08 08
o x x x Mark Whicker (Orange County Register). 05 07 08

Key
3 = 2003 (2001/2002 work on semifinalists for 2003 election)
5 = 2005 (appointed 2003-12, selections announced 2004-04-19)
7 = 2007 (appointed 2005-12, selections announced 2006-04-03)
8 = 2008 (meeting December 2007)
05 = affiliation listed in coverage of 2005 election
07 = affiliation listed in coverage of 2007 election
08 = affiliation listed in November 2007 press release

Sources
"The 2003 Hall of Fame Veterans Committee Vote" by Doug Pappas - superb coverage of the contributors election published in the SABR Business of Baseball Cmte newsletter, by its founder and chairman
"Baseball Hall of Fame balloting, 2005" at wikipedia
"Baseball Hall of Fame balloting, 2007" at wikipedia
"Veterans Committee ballots announced: Executives, managers, and umpires to be considered for 2008" (NBHOFM press release 2007-11-08)

--
add:
Eleven players nominated in the 2003 cycle were dropped for 2005 in favor of eight newly eligible players plus Larry Doyle, Andy Pafko, and Joe Wood.

Fifteen players nominated in the 2005 cycle were dropped for 2007 in favor of twelve newly eligible players plus Sherry Magee, Clyde Milan, and Slim Sallee.

Those veteran adds are five from the 1910s and Pafko from the 1940s-50s Cubs, Dodgers, and Braves.

--
add: from the fall 2007 press release linked above, emphasis mine
>>
The final Managers/Umpires ballot was developed by a Baseball Writers' Association of America (BBWAA) appointed Historical Overview Committee, comprised of 11 veteran members: Dave Van Dyck (Chicago Tribune); Bob Elliott (Toronto Sun); Rick Hummel (St. Louis Post-Dispatch); Steve Hirdt (Elias Sports Bureau); Moss Klein (Newark Star-Ledger); Bill Madden (New York Daily News); Ken Nigro, (formerly Baltimore Sun); Jack O'Connell (MLB.com); Nick Peters (Sacramento Bee); Tracy Ringolsby (Rocky Mountain News); and Mark Whicker (Orange County Register). The final Executives ballot was developed by the executive voting committee, which considered both retired executives and active executives age 65 or older.
<<

[Paul Wendt]

1993, 1996, 1998

The biography Jim Bunning by Frank Dolson identifies the Vets Cmte that elected Bunning in 1996 with 13 votes. It is in the selection posted at googlebooks (page 13).

The following table combines that 1996 list with the 1998 list published in Around the Horn at baseballhalloffame, contributed by Freakshow above and the "present" list in Bill James, The Politics of Glory or Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame?.

[U]93 96 98[/U] (year of Feb/Mar meeting)
x  x  x  Buzzie Bavasi
  94  x  Yogi Berra (appointed for 1994)
x        Jack Brickhouse
x  x  x  Bob Broeg
x  x  x  Joe Brown
   x  x  Ken Coleman
      x  Jerome Holtzman
x  97    Monte Irvin (retired '97/98 leaving 14 members or the 1998 meeting)
   x  x  Leonard Koppett
x  x  x  Allen Lewis
x        Al Lopez
x  x     Edgar Munzel
x  x  x  Stan Musial
x  x  x  Buck O'Neil
x        Gabe Paul
   x  x  Hank Peters
x        Shirley Povich
  94  x  Pee Wee Reese (appointed for 1994)
x        Charles Segar
x        Birdie Tebbetts
  94  x  Bill White (appointed for 1994)
x  x  x  Ted Williams

Numerals in the '96' column specify first year '94-95-96 or last year '96-97 if known.

add: Evidently Bill James's "present" Veterans Committee met in 1993, not 1994. See the following.

SPORTS PEOPLE: BASEBALL; Veterans Committee Additions Aid Rizzuto (New York Times, 1993 Aug 1)
The three members replaced by Rizzuto friends/partners Berra, Reese, and White were Al Lopez, Roy Campanella, and Birdie Tebbetts.

add: Re that NYT headline, Rizzuto was elected six months later.
BASEBALL; At Long Last, Rizzuto Makes Hall of Fame
>>
In 1984, for example, the committee not only failed to select Rizzuto with Reese but chose instead Rick Ferrell, a former catcher widely regarded as one of the hall's weakest selections. . . .
But with the addition of Rizzuto's pals -- Berra, Reese and his former broadcasting partner, Bill White -- to the veterans committee this year, the Scooter's chances improved markedly. He received the required 12 votes, 75 percent of the 16 members who attended the meeting, on the first of two allowable ballots. Gil Hodges, Richie Ashburn, Allie Reynolds and Carl Mays also had voting support.
<<

[Paul Wendt]

1995 and 1997

Here is my own December 1996 note to SABR-L summarizing the Veterans Committee membership for 1995 (17) and 1997 (15), retrieved from the archive of a PIRATES listserv.

>Date:    Wed, 18 Dec 1996 22:25:11 -0500
>From:    "Paul Wendt (SAR)" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: HOF Vets Committee, members 1995 & 1997
>
>SABRemongers,
>
>HOF Veterans Committee 1997 has 15 members, down from 17 in 1995.
>There are seven longtime players --no change from those whose dates,
>leagues, franchises, and cities I analysed in "HOF Vets Comm Analysis".
>The 8 other members are down from 10 in 1995, as follows:
>
>    1995 committee (17) ==> 1997 committee (15)
>    -------------------------------------------
>Joe L. Brown            ==> chair '97
>*Allen Lewis
>*Bob Broeg
>Buzzie Bavasi
>*Edgar Munzel           ==> *Jerome Holtzman
>Gabe Paul               ==> Hank Peters
>*Shirley Povich         ==> *Leonard Koppett
>*Ernie Harwell          ==> *Ken Coleman
>*Charles Segar chair'95 ==> out
>Jack Brickhouse         ==> out
>
>* = media; others are executives
>
>SEVEN LONGTIME PLAYERS (7), no change 1995-96-97
>Bill White
>Monte Irvin
>Pee Wee Reese
>Stan Musial
>Yogi Berra
>Buck O'Neil
>Ted Williams
>
>
>[B]Sources:[/B]
>[B]    "Around the Horn", 27 Feb 95 and 26 Aug 96[/B]
>[B]    HOF Telephone Answer Line, Feb 96[/B]

Bill James lists Ernie Harwell 1988 through 1991. Either he served a second term later or that 1991 end date is an error.

[Paul Wendt]

2001, Harwell; Marichal, Aaron, McHale

2001
From "the newspaper for the heartland of New York",
Ernie Harwell's VC career (1981-1995 plus 2001) and the list of 2001 members.
Broadcaster Ernie Harwell selected to Hall's Veterans Committee (Daily Star, 2001 Feb 16)


Marichal
Juan Antonio (Sanchez) Marichal ((c)1999-2000)
>>
. . . Marichal was also recently added to the National Baseball Hall of Fame 15 member Veterans Committee, replacing Monte Irvin who retired from the committee.
<<


Aaron
Press Release — February 14, 2000
Hank Aaron Joins Hall of Fame Veterans Committee
>>
(COOPERSTOWN, NY) — The National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum's Board of Directors announced that Baseball's all-time home run king, Hank Aaron, has been added to the institution's 15-member Committee on Baseball Veterans, effective immediately. Aaron replaces the late Pee Wee Reese, who passed away on August 14, 1999.
<<


McHale
Press Release — October 6, 1999
John McHale Joins Hall of Fame Veterans Committee
Two Special Ballots to Continue Through 2001
>>
(COOPERSTOWN, NY) — The National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum's Board of Directors announced that John J. McHale has been added to the institution's 15-member Veterans Committee, effective immediately. McHale replaces Buzzie Bavasi, who recently retired from the committee.
<<

[Paul Wendt]

1993-1994 seem complete, all seems complete

Yesterday I continued this thread by adds to #11, #12, #14; and by some revisions to the same.

Probably I now have complete covereage of 1995-2001, leaving only some trouble spots in 1993-1994 around the time Bill James completed his Hall of Fame books and acquired the historical VC members list by Bill Deane.


add:
The following articles, none of which I viewed in full, seem to complete the picture for 1993-1994.
Not shown here are some passages that merely report the number of VC members. All the pieces now fit including two corrections of the Bill James lists: Harwell served through 1995 not 1991. Gehringer served through 1992 not 1990 (he died 1993-01-27 but his seat was not filled until that summer).

>>
[Aug 2, 1993] selected by Hall of Fame officials to replace Veterans Committee members Charlie Gehringer and Roy Campanella, who passed away June 26. Also leaving the Veterans Committee is Birdie Tebbetts. Berra and White have long supported Rizzuto's worthiness for the Hall. Reese, when elected to the Hall ...
From RIZZUTO FAME-OUS? IT'S LOOKING GOOD - The... - The Record ($$)

[Feb 25, 1994] However, Al Lopez, who at age 85 is the Veterans Committee's senior member, said this week that recent sentiment to elect Maris is strong. Of Ashburn, Lopez said, "He's got pretty good numbers. The thing you have to take into consideration is that these are good ballplayers, but we're looking ...
From ASHBURN BID HAS NEW LIFE - Philadelphia Daily News ($$)

[Jun 19, 1994] "My theory is that the Dick Bartells of the game don't come up short, but the Hall of Fame does for permitting its Veterans Committee to exist as it ... Consider: Chairman Charles Segar, 42 years; Bob Broeg, 23; Stan Musial, 22; Edgar Munzel, 18; Al Lopez, 17 [years service on the committee -pgw]; Gabe Paul, 17; Buzzie Bavasi, 17; ...
From BARTELL SHUNNED BY THE BIG HALL - Sacramento Bee ($$)

[Jan 10, 1995] Allen Lewis, the retired Inquirer baseball writer and member of the Hall of Fame Veterans Committee, said yesterday that he had talked with committee ... There were 18 members on last year's selection committee, but Al Lopez has resigned and his position probably won't be filled, Lewis said. ...
From VETERANS COMMITTEE MAY SELECT ASHBURN - Philadelphia Inquirer ($$)
<<

[Paul Wendt]

famous last words

Probably I now have complete coverage of 1995-2001, leaving only some trouble spots in 1993-1994 around the time Bill James completed his Hall of Fame books and acquired the historical VC members list by Bill Deane.
. . .
add:
The following articles, none of which I viewed in full, seem to complete the picture for 1993-1994.
Not shown here are some passages that merely report the number of VC members. All the pieces now fit including two corrections of the Bill James lists: Harwell served through 1995 not 1991. Gehringer served through 1992 not 1990 (he died 1993-01-27 but his seat was not filled until that summer).

No, I suppose I have full coverage of 1994-2001 but there are some problems with the record published by Bill James and with some early 1990s newspaper reports.
Among other things, coverage of the summer 1991 inductions includes a note that Charlie Gehringer resigned from both the Board of Directors and the Veterans Committee (when?) and Robin Roberts replaced him.

It appears to me that Roberts replaced Gehringer on the Board of Directors only.
When did Gehringer serve on the Vets Cmte? Thru 1990 (James) or 1991 (simple reading of that summer 1991 coverage) or thru his Jan 1993 death or did he resign and return?
Ernie Harwell and Billy Herman are the partners in confusion. Getting Gehringer's tenure or both of theirs will get all three.

A membership list or even a clear statement of the number of members is still welcome especially for 1991-1993.