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What if Dave Kingman had 500 HRs. HOFER?

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  • johnny
    replied
    Originally posted by DoubleX
    There is a holy trinity of career numbers - history has shown that if a player reaches one of them, they're in the Hall: 300 wins, 3000 hits, and 500 homeruns. 3000 Ks, is certainly a shiny number, but it's not nearly on the same level as 500 homeruns, from a historical perspective.

    Here is something interesting off of baseball reference. Salaries.
    In 1986 he knocks out 35 homers and is making less than a million.
    1985 Oakland Athletics $1,087,500
    1986 Oakland Athletics $730,000

    Kingman looks to have made 500 homers -barring injury- in three seasons or less. But given his lack of popularity amongst writers and I think that they would have used his other deficiencies to make the argument against him getting in the HOF. But, I wonder how he would do in the Vets Committee. They could have a different perspective.
    Last edited by johnny; 03-06-2006, 10:00 AM.

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  • DoubleX
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
    3000 K's hasn't been able to get Bert Blyleven in thus far. So the career milestone argument hasn't always proved true. 3000 K is not as shiny as 500 HR, but it still is pretty bright.
    There is a holy trinity of career numbers - history has shown that if a player reaches one of them, they're in the Hall: 300 wins, 3000 hits, and 500 homeruns. 3000 Ks, is certainly a shiny number, but it's not nearly on the same level as 500 homeruns, from a historical perspective.

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  • abacab
    replied
    I don't think he would have made it. My reasoning is this: 442 is still a very impressive number of home runs, even more so 15 years ago, and Kingman got practically zero support. If he hits 500, obviously he gets a lot more support. But I don't think his support goes from 0% to 75% just because he hits 60 more homers. I think he probably would've had 10% or 20% support, so he would've stayed on the BBWAA ballot, but never came close to getting in, similar to Steve Garvey or Dave Parker.

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  • Mike D.
    replied
    I also voted no. I think that it takes cases like this to eventually change the "sure thing" metrics.

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  • Captain Cold Nose
    replied
    3000 K's hasn't been able to get Bert Blyleven in thus far. So the career milestone argument hasn't always proved true. 3000 K is not as shiny as 500 HR, but it still is pretty bright.

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  • Edgartohof
    replied
    I believe he could have been voted in if he ended up with 500 HR's - he may not have deserved it, but that hasn't stopped a lot of people from getting in, so why should it stop him?

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  • RogersMaris
    replied
    What if Dave Kingman had 500 HRs. HOFER?

    Not a chance!

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  • KCGHOST
    replied
    I said "no" because that's how I would have voted. No telling what the real electorate would do.

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  • DoubleX
    replied
    I guess I'm the lone vote so far for yes. Like I said before, don't think he'd deserve to be in, but the voters like the shiny numbers, and I think they would have put Kingman in if he surpassed the 500 homerun milestone.

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  • Captain Cold Nose
    replied
    Originally posted by johnny
    I always thought -given his last season output of 35 hrs- that it was weird he didn't try and come back to get to 500 homers.
    Anyone have the story on that?
    But yeah, he was always my argument against 500 homers and still not going to the HOF.
    That was around the time of collusion. There was also so many younger players of similar skill sets, like Pete Incaviglia, Rob Deer and Billy Joe Robidoux (however it's spelled) that could be had for cheaper.

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  • johnny
    replied
    Originally posted by Pine Tar
    Just something I am curious about. I am wondering if you think that Dave Kingman would have been elected to the hall of fame had he reached 500 HRs. He ended his career with 442 and hit 35 his last year. So if he had played another two years, he might have hit 500. THis isn't a question about if he deserved to go to the hall, just a question of if he would have been elected.
    I always thought -given his last season output of 35 hrs- that it was weird he didn't try and come back to get to 500 homers.
    Anyone have the story on that?
    But yeah, he was always my argument against 500 homers and still not going to the HOF.

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  • DoubleX
    replied
    I still don't think Kingman would have deserved to be in, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did make it in because of the milestone - kind of the Don Sutton of hitting.

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  • Captain Cold Nose
    replied
    Originally posted by TheKid8
    Kingman was home run or strike out hitter. He was the predessor to Sammy Sosa. Sosa does not deserve to be in either
    Sosa was nowhere near the liability Kingman was in the field, and he hit far better than Kingman. But Kingman was the prototype for the all-or-nothing hitter. The DH was made for his type.

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  • TheKid8
    replied
    Kingman was home run or strike out hitter. He was the predessor to Sammy Sosa. Sosa does not deserve to be in either

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  • Captain Cold Nose
    replied
    Poor defensive player. Poor hitter in general. Poor teammate. All those home runs for last place teams do not a hall of famer make.

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