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Bobby Doerr's most similar: Who deserves induction?

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  • Bobby Doerr's most similar: Who deserves induction?

    Seven of the 10 players most statistically similar to Bobby Doerr are not in the Hall of Fame. Those players are:

    Vern Stephens
    Bob Elliott
    Joe Torre
    Ray Durham
    Ken Boyer
    Jay Bell
    Marty McManus

    Which, if any, should be inducted into the Hall of Fame? Here are some notable achievements for each, from Baseball-Reference.com:

    Vern Stephens:

    8-time AL All-Star (1943-1946 & 1948-1951)
    AL Home Runs Leader (1945)
    3-time AL RBI Leader (1944, 1948 & 1950)
    20-Home Run Seasons: 6 (1943-1945 & 1948-1950)
    30-Home Run Seasons: 2 (1949 & 1950)
    100 RBI Seasons: 4 (1944 & 1948-1950)
    100 Runs Scored Seasons: 3 (1948-1950)

    Bob Elliott:

    7-time NL All-Star (1941, 1942, 1944, 1945, 1947, 1948 & 1951)
    NL MVP (1947)
    NL Bases on Balls Leader (1948)
    20-Home Runs Seasons: 3 (1947, 1948 & 1950)
    100 RBI Seasons: 6 (1943-1945, 1947, 1948 & 1950)

    Joe Torre:

    1961 Topps All-Star Rookie Team
    9-time NL All-Star (1963-1967 & 1970-1973)
    NL MVP (1971)
    NL Gold Glove Winner (1965/C)
    NL Batting Average Leader (1971)
    NL Hits Leader (1971)
    NL Total Bases Leader (1971)
    NL RBI Leader (1971)
    20-Home Run Seasons: 6 (1964-1967, 1970 & 1971)
    30-Home Run Seasons: 1 (1966)
    100 RBI Seasons: 5 (1964, 1966 & 1969-1971)
    200 Hits Seasons: 2 (1970 & 1971)

    Ray Durham:

    1995 Topps All-Star Rookie Team
    2-time AL All-Star (1998 & 2000)
    20-Home Run Seasons: 2 (2001 & 2006)
    100 Runs Scored Seasons: 6 (1997-2002)

    Ken Boyer:

    7-time NL All-Star (1956 & 1959-1964)
    NL MVP (1964)
    5-time NL Gold Glove Winner (1958-1961 & 1963)
    NL RBI Leader (1964)
    20-Home Run Seasons: 8 (1956 & 1958-1964)
    30-Home Run Seasons: 1 (1960)
    100 RBI Seasons: 2 (1963 & 1964)
    100 Runs Scored Seasons: 3 (1958, 1961 & 1964)
    Won a World Series with the St. Louis Cardinals in 1964

    Jay Bell:

    2-time NL All-Star (1993 & 1999)
    NL Gold Glove Winner (1993)
    NL Silver Slugger Award Winner (1993)
    20-Home Run Seasons: 3 (1997-1999)
    30-Home Run Seasons: 1 (1999)
    100 RBI Seasons: 1 (1999)
    100 Runs Scored Seasons: 2 (1993 & 1999)
    Won a World Series with the Arizona Diamondbacks in 2001

    Marty McManus:

    100 RBI Seasons: 1 (1922)
    100 Runs Scored Seasons: 2 (1925 & 1926)
    AL Doubles Leader (1925)
    43
    Vern Stephens
    18.60%
    8
    Bob Elliott
    9.30%
    4
    Joe Torre
    32.56%
    14
    Ray Durham
    2.33%
    1
    Ken Boyer
    30.23%
    13
    Jay Bell
    0.00%
    0
    Marty McManus
    0.00%
    0
    All of the above
    0.00%
    0
    None of the above
    6.98%
    3

  • #2
    Torre gets bonus points here because of his success as a manager.
    http://soundbounder.blogspot.com/

    Comment


    • #3
      I can't quite go for Torre as a player only, but overall he belongs. I added a vote for him via editing.
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

      Comment


      • #4
        Stephens and Boyer both have fairly strong cases. Torre as a player/manager will eventually be elected once he retires. The rest fall way short.

        Comment


        • #5
          i didnt mean to vote for ray durham
          Pirates Fan Forever!!!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by steveironcity View Post
            i didnt mean to vote for ray durham
            Taken care of.
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment


            • #7
              I've heard arguments for Ken Boyer, and I think he deserves a look.
              “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

              "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

              Comment


              • #8
                Torre's states are HOF-worthy for either a career C or a career 3B. The truncated nature of his career is a big reason he is not in the HOF; being overshadowed by Bench is another.

                I consider Boyer a worthy candidate; the arguments for Ron Santo are, pretty much, an argument for Ken Boyer.

                I voted yes for Stephens; he is better than Rizzuto, IMO, and about even with Reese. That's not the most overwhelming endorsement, but Stephens wouldn't disgrace the HOF if he did get in.

                My fourth pick for the HOF out of this group is "Mr. Team", Bob Elliott. Elliott won an MVP award and deserved it; he was the best third baseman in the NL for most of his career, and, arguably, the best in baseball until Al Rosen asserted himself. One can do a Keltner List on Elliott and find a surprisingly large number of positive answers.
                "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

                NL President Ford Frick, 1947

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear View Post
                  Torre's states are HOF-worthy for either a career C or a career 3B. The truncated nature of his career is a big reason he is not in the HOF; being overshadowed by Bench is another.

                  I consider Boyer a worthy candidate; the arguments for Ron Santo are, pretty much, an argument for Ken Boyer.

                  I voted yes for Stephens; he is better than Rizzuto, IMO, and about even with Reese. That's not the most overwhelming endorsement, but Stephens wouldn't disgrace the HOF if he did get in.

                  My fourth pick for the HOF out of this group is "Mr. Team", Bob Elliott. Elliott won an MVP award and deserved it; he was the best third baseman in the NL for most of his career, and, arguably, the best in baseball until Al Rosen asserted himself. One can do a Keltner List on Elliott and find a surprisingly large number of positive answers.
                  Lots of people are better than Rizzuto, but thats for another thread.
                  http://soundbounder.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by parlo View Post
                    Lots of people are better than Rizzuto, but thats for another thread.
                    That depends on how much credit he gets for time lost to WWII which was roughly 450 games.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Torre at third?

                      Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear View Post
                      Torre's states are HOF-worthy for either a career C or a career 3B. The truncated nature of his career is a big reason he is not in the HOF; being overshadowed by Bench is another.
                      Torre barely played 3B, only 3.2 out of 13.6 full seasons, 23%. He played C and 1B about equally, 41% and 36%.
                      Counting seasons rather than career shares Dick Allen (in the shorter career) played 50% more than Torre at third, only 5% more at first.

                      Similarity score puts a heavy weight on batting statistics, without any adjustment for conditions, but it does put some light weight on fielding position. It is a bit surprising to me that Torre shows up on the list for a pure throwing infielder, Doerr.

                      Comment

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