Milt Pappas

[Cowtipper]

Milt Pappas played 17 years in the majors, and in that time he compiled a 209-164 record with a 3.40 ERA. A seven time 15 game winner, Pappas was a three time All-Star, and in 1971 he led the league in shutouts with five. In 1964 he led the league in K/BB ratio, and in 1967 and 1972 he led the league in best BB/9IP ratio, so clearly he was a pretty good control pitcher.

One of only 16 liveball era pitchers to win 150 games before turning 30, Pappas was the first pitcher to make it to 200 wins without ever winning 20 games in a season. He also threw a no-hitter (nearly a perfect game) at one point as well.

In 1979, he received some votes for the Hall of Fame. He is statistically similar to three Hall of Fame pitchers: Don Drysdale, Jim Hunter and Jesse Haines. He had respectable grey ink of 128.

So...should Milt Pappas be in the Hall of Fame?

[Captain Cold Nose]

Pappas was a good pitcher. While he may be statistically similar for his career to the HOF-elected pitchers, Pappas doesn't have any of the short-time highllights the others had, Haines with his WS record (and VC teammates), Drysdale with his shutout streak and Hunter for his several 20-win seasons for pennant-winners.

[dgarza]

Pappas was a good pitcher. While he may be statistically similar for his career to the HOF-elected pitchers, Pappas doesn't have any of the short-time highllights the others had, Haines with his WS record (and VC teammates), Drysdale with his shutout streak and Hunter for his several 20-win seasons for pennant-winners.

He would need some "highlights" to help his case.
And I think we expect more out of him, playing in a pitchers' era like he did.

[leecemark]

--Pappas isn't even welcome in the Suburbs of Cooperstown.

[Captain Cold Nose]

He would need some "highlights" to help his case.
And I think we expect more out of him, playing in a pitchers' era like he did.

His case might be helped if Baltimore didn't start winning as much as they did after he left, with pitching being so important in that equation. Palmer, McNally and Cuellar all had better careers.

[dgarza]

His case might be helped if Baltimore didn't start winning as much as they did after he left, with pitching being so important in that equation. Palmer, McNally and Cuellar all had better careers.

I don't understand how that would help Pappas? Wouldn't it just hurt Palmer, McNally, and Cuellar?

[KCGHOST]

We've discussed Pappas before and electing him simply because he resembles three mistakes is still not a good idea.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Pappas was a six-inning pitcher in an era where pitchers were expected to rack up complete games, and where conditions were more favorable for pitchers to do so.

[THE OX]

Pappas was a six-inning pitcher in an era where pitchers were expected to rack up complete games, and where conditions were more favorable for pitchers to do so.

Equine Excreta! He had a career total of 129 CGs out of 465 starts, which is probably about triple the number of CGs any of today's HOFers of the future will accumulate in their careers.

That's just a shade under 30% of complete games, which would be a fabulous total nowadays, and probably about average in the era when he played.

[leecemark]

--Average at best. Pappas was in the top 10 in IP twice in his career. He did have 7 top 10 finishes in CG, but 5 of them were 8th, 9th or 10th. He was especially UNdurable, but his durability is hardly a plus for him in comparsion to the Hall of Famers of his era (or any era on relative terms).

[Gee Walker]

The one kicker that Pappas has going for himself is shutouts. He threw 43 of them - exactly one-third of his complete games. This puts him #37 on the all-time shutout list - and in some pretty good company. Would you have guessed that Pappas has more career shutouts than Sandy Koufax, Randy Johnson, or Carl Hubbell?

That's about as nice as Drysdale's shutout streak in my opinion. But I'm not a big Drysdale fan either. And Luis Tiant, who is a near contemporary, had 49 shutouts and a much better career than both of them.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Equine Excreta! He had a career total of 129 CGs out of 465 starts, which is probably about triple the number of CGs any of today's HOFers of the future will accumulate in their careers.

That's just a shade under 30% of complete games, which would be a fabulous total nowadays, and probably about average in the era when he played.

Pappas' reputation was that of a guy that didn't finish the game. That is a fact, and I'm old enough to remember Pappas' career firsthand.

Whether or not it was an accurate reputation is in question, but it was a lasting impression. I think the rep was the result of his decline after his trade for Frank Robinson. In rechecking, Pappas was in the top 10 in complete games six times between 1959-65, but that stopped once he was traded to Cincinnati. He did finish 10th in CGs in 1971, his first good year with the Cubs, but the rep did last.

Pappas was NOT a "workhorse" after 1965.

[soberdennis]

Pappas' greatest claim to fame was he was a principal in one of the most lopsided trades in history.h
He was a decent pitcher. He should go in the Hall of Decent. But I wouldn't vote for him in the HOF.

[Los Bravos]

People who blithely dismiss Hunter and Drysdale amuse me.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I don't understand how that would help Pappas? Wouldn't it just hurt Palmer, McNally, and Cuellar?

I worded that a little poorly, but Baltimore got better after Pappas left, in large part because the pitching got better. Sure, other things factored in. And it's not like Pappas was holding things back. But things came into place after he was no longer on the team.