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  • #91
    Originally posted by charger View Post
    The numbers dont lie. Trevor is the greatest reliever of all time. Case closed. All you biased east coast types need to stop worshipping Rivera. Trevor Hoffman is the best. It is fact.
    I'm not from the East coast. Nor is Classic.

    If is takes a biased east coast type to worship Rivera, what are you for worshipping Hoffman?

    Case nowhere even close to being closed. Until they stop playing baseball ever again tomorrow.
    Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
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    • #92
      Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
      I'm not from the East coast. Nor is Classic.
      But we are biased.
      "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
      "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
      "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
      "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

      Comment

      • #93
        Originally posted by JayJohnstone View Post
        Hoffman is a joke. He is a stat padded pitcher who has never been anything more than good

        Originally posted by charger View Post
        The numbers dont lie. Trevor is the greatest reliever of all time. Case closed. All you biased east coast types need to stop worshipping Rivera. Trevor Hoffman is the best. It is fact.

        Celebrity (Baseball) DeathMatch anyone?
        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

        Comment

        • #94
          You also have to look at his win/loss record where he has more losses then wins which could hurt him.

          Comment

          • #95
            Originally posted by Bravesfan1984 View Post
            You also have to look at his win/loss record where he has more losses then wins which could hurt him.
            You really don't for a closer. See Sutter, Bruce.
            Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
            Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
            Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
            Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
            Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

            Comment

            • #96
              Originally posted by parlo View Post
              Is Hoffman a Hall of Famer ?
              Sure, he is the all time save leader, but that is no guarantee of induction.
              I would like to hear your opinions.
              Hoffman is a tough call. On the one hand, you have his overall record and so many years with so many saves. However, has he ever gotten the big out. I've seen him blow so many games. I would probably vote him in, but I wouldn't want him closing a game for my team.
              Visit www.statonebaseball.com to learn why traditional statistics are ultimately flawed...and why P/E Averages are not!

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
                You really don't for a closer. See Sutter, Bruce.
                I think with the one inning closers, losses matter more. But in the end, Saves, W-L records etc are misleading. ERA and ERA+ are the most telling indicators.
                http://soundbounder.blogspot.com/

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by charger View Post
                  The numbers dont lie. Trevor is the greatest reliever of all time. Case closed. All you biased east coast types need to stop worshipping Rivera. Trevor Hoffman is the best. It is fact.
                  1996 NL Division Series - St. Louis Cardinals over San Diego Padres (3-0) | Baseball-Reference.com
                  http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1996_NLDS2.shtml
                  1996 NL Division Series - St. Louis Cardinals over San Diego Padres (3-0) series statistics and schedule on Baseball-Reference.com


                  1998 World Series - New York Yankees over San Diego Padres (4-0) | Baseball-Reference.com
                  http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1998_WS.shtml
                  1998 World Series - New York Yankees over San Diego Padres (4-0) series statistics and schedule on Baseball-Reference.com
                  Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                  Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
                    http://www.baseball-reference.com/po...96_NLDS2.shtml

                    http://www.baseball-reference.com/po.../1998_WS.shtml
                    The numbers don't lie. It is fact.

                    or, in other words, ouch.
                    Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                    Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                    Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                    Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

                    Comment

                    • #100
                      The question is, what do the facts mean? Sure, Rivera performed well in quite a few of his playoffs, and Hoffman didn't in that opportunity. It counts, but for how much? It is only a few innings, right?
                      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                      Comment

                      • #101
                        Originally posted by jalbright View Post
                        The question is, what do the facts mean? Sure, Rivera performed well in quite a few of his playoffs, and Hoffman didn't in that opportunity. It counts, but for how much? It is only a few innings, right?
                        Unless you're saying Hoffman was better than Rivera during the regular season ...? :noidea:disbelief:
                        Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                        Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                        Comment

                        • #102
                          I wouldn't say that now, but neither man has closed the book on his career. The answer to the question certainly appears to run strongly in Rivera's favor, but history has its twists, and it's not guaranteed this won't be one of them.
                          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                          Comment

                          • #103
                            Originally posted by jalbright View Post
                            I wouldn't say that now, but neither man has closed the book on his career. The answer to the question certainly appears to run strongly in Rivera's favor, but history has its twists, and it's not guaranteed this won't be one of them.
                            Unless Hoffman pulls a Clemens AND Rivera pulls a Blass/Mitch Williams (even then I'm not sure it's possible)
                            Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                            Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                            Comment

                            • #104
                              Hoffman is a shoo in IMO<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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                              • #105
                                Originally posted by Old Sweater View Post
                                Hoffman is a shoo in IMO<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
                                This, not the question of who is better, Rivera or Hoffman, is the main question of the thread.
                                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                                Comment

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