If Ichiro makes it ...

[AstrosFan]

... will that open the door for other Japanese League stars like Sadaharu Oh? Looking for some input from people well versed in Japanese Baseball and the Hall of Fame.

[Paul Wendt]

well-versed in the Hall of Fame only, I believe:

If he plays ten years in the major leagues, he will come up for election here in the ordinary course of things. There will be no direct effect and there may not be much indirect either.

If he players fewer than ten years here, then they will need to consider his eligibility explicitly and that will have some direct effect. There will be a lot more discussion of the scope of the Hall of Fame than if he plays ten years.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

No, Ichiro's possible HoF induction will not help induct Sadaharu Oh to the HoF. There is no current mechanism to induct Oh anyway. He isn't eligible since he didn't play 10 major league seasons.

We've debated this endlessly before here at BBF. Except for a few us most of BBF is against any Japanese player that didn't play in the major leagues being inducted into the HoF.

[jalbright]

Ichiro will likely have over 10 years, and his years in Japan will be icing on the cake. Any effect beyond that will likely be a while in coming, but if and when people realize Oh was a far better player than Ichiro (and I like Ichiro), it might help speed up the glacial speed of change. What could be really dramatic would be if Ichiro took the opportunity of his induction to speak up for his predecessors in Japan. That might give the idea some juice. It wouldn't make for a change within two or three years, but it might give the idea some momentum.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Ichiro will likely have over 10 years, and his years in Japan will be icing on the cake. Any effect beyond that will likely be a while in coming, but if and when people realize Oh was a far better player than Ichiro (and I like Ichiro), it might help speed up the glacial speed of change. What could be really dramatic would be if Ichiro took the opportunity of his induction to speak up for his predecessors in Japan. That might give the idea some juice. It wouldn't make for a change within two or three years, but it might give the idea some momentum.

How long do you think it may take? If the HOF does open its door to NPB players I hope they do it while Oh is still alive. He'll be 68 years old next month and had surgery in '06 to remove his cancerous stomach.

[Brooklyn]

What could be really dramatic would be if Ichiro took the opportunity of his induction to speak up for his predecessors in Japan.

How long do you think it may take? If the HOF does open its dorr to NPB players I hope they do it while Oh is still alive. He'll be 68 years old next month and had surgery in '06 to remove his cancerous stomach.

Do we even know if Ichiro or Oh care if Japanese players are allowed into Cooperstown? There is a Baseball HOF in Japan - perhaps they feel that is the appropriate way to honor Japansese stars. Do we even know if Oh would accept?

I think it is arogant of Americans to think that Japanese league players want to be in our HOF. Why is there no uproar that Babe Ruth isn't in the Japanese HOF? If an American born player played his whole career in Japan and was inducted into the Japanese HOf, would we expect him to speak up for American ball players to be inducted into the Japanese league? And, if a non-Japanese born MLB player were to be honored in Japn, I'm not even sure he'd bother to make the trip.

[BlueBlood]

I agree with the above sentiment. They have their own Hall of Fame and are enshrined there. Ichiro played in MLB so he's eligible for both...plenty of the others decided to stay in the Japanese leagues on their own volition.

[bob]

Should Hank Aaron be in the Japanese Hall of Fame? No.
Should Oh be in the American Hall of Fame? No.
Being in the HOF of the major league you played your career in is good enough for anybody.

[jalbright]

How long do you think it may take? If the HOF does open its dorr to NPB players I hope they do it while Oh is still alive. He'll be 68 years old next month and had surgery in '06 to remove his cancerous stomach.

Even if Ichiro were to make such a statement on his induction, it's going to be a long road. First, we have the rest of Ichiro's career. Then we have the five year wait. Then you have the statement, and possibly the idea gets some traction--but you've got to deal with thoughts like that expressed between our posts. Don't kid yourself--it's going to take a while, even if Ichiro were to do that--and there's no guarantee he will.

I've expressed elsewhere in this forum and in my own writings on baseballguru.com and in my musings thread in this forum my thoughts on Japanese players in Cooperstown and responded to many of the arguments raised here. I don't care to replow the same turf, and will just refer anyone who cares to those previous statements.

[dgarza]

Ichiro will likely have over 10 years, and his years in Japan will be icing on the cake. Any effect beyond that will likely be a while in coming, but if and when people realize Oh was a far better player than Ichiro (and I like Ichiro), it might help speed up the glacial speed of change. What could be really dramatic would be if Ichiro took the opportunity of his induction to speak up for his predecessors in Japan. That might give the idea some juice. It wouldn't make for a change within two or three years, but it might give the idea some momentum.

How long did it take between the Ted Williams's comment and Josh Gibson? Something like 6 years?
Although perhaps that idea already had momentum before Williams's comment.

[dgarza]

Do we even know if Ichiro or Oh care if Japanese players are allowed into Cooperstown? There is a Baseball HOF in Japan - perhaps they feel that is the appropriate way to honor Japansese stars. Do we even know if Oh would accept?

I don't think it matters. It's not like accepting a nomination. There are plenty of players in the HOF who had no say in the matter, because they had passed on.

I think it is arogant of Americans to think that Japanese league players want to be in our HOF.

I hope I'm not drawing too much of a generalization, but I believe there's a large sense of pride in Japan. To be in Japan's HOF could mean much more than being in the US HOF (not that it wouldn't be an honor).
Same with reasons NOT coming to the US to play.

[hairmetalfreek]

Should Hank Aaron be in the Japanese Hall of Fame? No.
Should Oh be in the American Hall of Fame? No.
Being in the HOF of the major league you played your career in is good enough for anybody.

Then why are Negro Leaguers inducted into Cooperstown? There is a separate HOF for the Negro Leagues in Kansas City. (Correction, after looking at the website, I see that the museum in Kansas City does not want to be considered a HOF, and believes that Cooperstown is where the superior players should be recognized)

I personally view the HOF as an educational institution as well as historical. I'm glad the Negro Leagues are included, because I would have a more difficult time learning about them if it weren't for Cooperstown.

In a way, I wish the superior players from other major leagues were recognized in some way - if not with a plaque, then with some sort of educational wing. Oh is the only Japanese Leaguer from the past that I am familiar with, and I don't know anything about any other leagues. I believe Cooperstown including some sort of exhibit for them would help us with a greater sense of baseball's importance in the history of not only America, but the whole world.

[jalbright]

How long did it take between the Ted Williams's comment and Josh Gibson? Something like 6 years?
Although perhaps that idea already had momentum before Williams's comment.

There was certainly more of a constituency for Negro Leaguers at the time TW made his statement than there is for Japanese players now. It's hard to guess right now how much of a constituency will exist for the Japanese at least the better part of a decade from today. Also, while it seems clear MLB made a business decision not to try and do more than make mild inquiries to Japanese teams about Japanese players and be willing to take no for an answer, there isn't the same sense of injustice as there is over excluding players based on the color of their skin. The continuing influx of Japanese players will influence the discussion as well. Also, MLB is courting the Japanese market, and they might well prevail upon Cooperstown some day to induct Japanese players as a means of furthering their goals in that direction. If and when MLB would take such a step, Cooperstown would likely move exceptionally rapidly (by their standards, though I'd guess it would still take a year or two) to comply. My feeling is that within my six year old's lifetime, it will happen--but I'm not sure that it will happen in my current 40-something-year old lifetime--but it may.

[The Roflcopter]

Yes

yeah, possibly. but there is the question if ichiro ever makes it. I think he deserves it, don't you?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I agree with the above sentiment. They have their own Hall of Fame and are enshrined there. Ichiro played in MLB so he's eligible for both...plenty of the others decided to stay in the Japanese leagues on their own volition.

Tha is simply not true. Until 1995 Japanese players were effectively banned from the major leagues. Even if Oh or any other Japanese player really wanted to to come the majors in the mid 1960s they could not. In the mid 1960s the Dodgers approached the Yumiuri Giants about possibly acquiring third baseman Shigeo Nagashima. The Giants told the Dodgers no.