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Was Kirby Hall of Fame Worthy?

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  • WackyMooseSoltersFan
    replied
    I'm comfortable with Pucketts selection to the HoF. I think statistics are the major factor when considering admission to the Hall, but at a certain point you have to look at what the player in question meant to the the team he played for and that city (playing for one team in a career helps) and what they meant to the game and culture of baseball. In this case, Puckett is in.

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  • digglahhh
    replied
    Originally posted by Appling
    Kirby has more career hits (2304) than DiMaggio (2214) -- in one less season!
    Yeah, but they also had very similar but reverse K/BB rates...and Pucket was a very good contact hitter.

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  • digglahhh
    replied
    To be fair, the hits tally doesn't recognize that he rarely walked. He lead his league in hits 4 times but was only in the top 5 in Times on Base, once in his whole career. 10 top 10 hits finishes, and still only 5 top 10 finishes in times on base. Hits are more valuable then walks so I don't mind all that much, butter geez when you hit .356 and have an OBP. of .375, that makes Vlad Guerrero look like Frank Thomas.

    Kirby is HOF worthy, so I'm not trying to bash him but the hits and BA numbers overstate his greatness a bit.

    He was a potent offensive force and a constant gold glover at an important defensive position. His power numbers were perfectly fine for his era, .67 points over his league SLG (with the DH).

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  • Honus Wagner Rules
    replied
    Originally posted by Appling
    Quickest to reach 2000 career hits.
    Team leader on two World Championship teams.

    Fun to watch. Drew paying fans to the ballpark.

    I think he belongs. He's not the only one with a short career -- and even in the year he quit he was in great shape and had a great Spring Training season before his eyesight problem forced him to retire.

    I fully expected Kirby to be voed to the Hall of Fame, but I admit I was surprised that he made it on the FIRST BALLOT.
    Players with "short careers" can be overwhelming HoF candidates if they have great individual seasons. Puckett certianly had those and he led the Twins to two World Series wins plus his fan-friendly personality gave him a boost. Puckett was never my kind of hitter (very poor walk rates) but he certainly was my kind of ballplayer (fun, exciting, clutch, etc.).

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  • Appling
    replied
    Originally posted by vasprtsfn
    At first glance, I agree that his career stats in HR, hits, and RBIs are not Hall worthy. But, he did hit over .300 on many occasions, and his career .318 BA, combined with his hustle and dedication to the game, made him Hall worthy, as far as I am concerned.
    Kirby has more career hits (2304) than DiMaggio (2214) -- in one less season!
    And his 207 career homeruns isn't bad for a guy who had only 4 homeruns in his first two seasons (over 1200 AB).

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  • Appling
    replied
    Quickest to reach 2000 career hits.
    Team leader on two World Championship teams.

    Fun to watch. Drew paying fans to the ballpark.

    I think he belongs. He's not the only one with a short career -- and even in the year he quit he was in great shape and had a great Spring Training season before his eyesight problem forced him to retire.

    I fully expected Kirby to be voed to the Hall of Fame, but I admit I was surprised that he made it on the FIRST BALLOT.
    Last edited by Appling; 03-15-2006, 01:58 PM.

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  • The Commissioner
    replied
    One thing that hasn't been brought up that much, or at least enough, in the analysis of Puckett's career is what he did in helping to lead those two clubs to World Series titles. That was, and deservedly so, a huge factor in his election to Cooperstown. Something like that can't be dissected through numbers alone.

    Also, regardless of what era you played in and in what ballparks, when you have 2300+ hits accompanied by a .318 career average, you are a Hall of Famer. This shouldn't even be in doubt.

    Leave a comment:


  • dgarza
    replied
    Originally posted by vasprtsfn
    At first glance, I agree that his career stats in HR, hits, and RBIs are not Hall worthy.
    hit stats? he only has about 100 less hits than, say, Mantle.

    Leave a comment:


  • vasprtsfn
    replied
    At first glance, I agree that his career stats in HR, hits, and RBIs are not Hall worthy. But, he did hit over .300 on many occasions, and his career .318 BA, combined with his hustle and dedication to the game, made him Hall worthy, as far as I am concerned.

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Cold Nose
    replied
    A few of the sabermetric-obsessed guys have endorsed Puckett's place in the HOF. I'm not a sabr guy, but those who qualify are getting a bum rap of late.

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  • futurehalloffamer
    replied
    When I think of the Hall of Fame, I don't like to narrow it down to stats. Yes, I think it should play a big role in it, but also how classy players were should contribute. For a twelve season career, Kirby Puckett's stats were incredible. It has always bothered me thinking about what he could have accomplished had he not been forced to retire. However, I think a big factor of what got him into the Hall was his classiness on and off the field. He always had that infectious smile on his face, and the sight of a heavy 5'8" player doing what he did made everyone like him more. The short career is the only thing I can think of that could keep him out, but he DID play past the years required for HOF eligibility and accomplished what most players don't accomplish in twenty years. But like I said, he had a great personality on and off the field, and that gave him a huge boost. I hate how people now are so obsessed with sabermetrics now, its ridiculous.

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  • Atlanta Braves Freak
    replied
    Wow! I'm surprised this thread got this much attention in one day. Great discussion and good job keeping the posts clean. I'll add a poll.

    Leave a comment:


  • dgarza
    replied
    Puckett had a 162 avg of 209 hits over 12 years.

    Let's see who else has had a hit average of 200+ over at least 10 years ("recently"):
    Tony Gwynn : 209 over 20 years
    Rod Carew : 200 over 19 years
    Wade Boggs : 200 over 18 years
    Roberto Clemente : 200 over 18 years
    Nomar Garciaparra : 211 over 10 years : wait a minute..really?
    Paul Molitor : 200 over 21 years
    Derek Jeter : 206 over 11 years
    who else?

    Not bad company.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bronxbommers
    replied
    This is ridiculous

    Just look at Puckett's lifetime BA, and tell me how many active players have a higher career average (I'll help you out on this one, there's only 3, Helton, Guerrero, and Garciaparra). Beyond numbers, the man he was is what made him a hall of famer. He was everything that is good about this game. He was an amazing talent that didn't carry himself as that. He treated every man the same, whether you were a hall of famer or a bus boy. This guy took a franchise without a lot of money and brought them two world championships. He was not just the face of the Twins during that time, he was the face of baseball, and if you disagree, read what Joe Torre or Randy Johnson or Torri Hunter or any other major leaguer has to say about him. His numbers made him deserving, but who he was made it a no-brainer. I can't believe we're even having this discussion.

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  • dgarza
    replied
    Originally posted by Naliamegod
    They really don't compare at all.
    Their numbers DO compare...because they are so similar (when taken as averages). They DID arrive at them differently, so their careers ARE NOT similar.

    Leave a comment:

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