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Which of these 3 has the stronger Hall case? Shocker, Blyleven or C.Mays?

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  • Which of these 3 has the stronger Hall case? Shocker, Blyleven or C.Mays?

    I have a question, that involves 3 pitchers.

    Whose Hall case is the stronger of the 3, Urban Shocker, Bert Blyleven, or Carl Mays?
    80
    Bert Blyleven has the stongest case of the 3.
    46.25%
    37
    Carl Mays has the strongest case of the 3.
    3.75%
    3
    Urban Shocker has the strongest case of the 3.
    0.00%
    0
    Even with my selection, all are deserving.
    3.75%
    3
    Even with my selection, none are deserving
    2.50%
    2
    I support Bert's Hall case.
    28.75%
    23
    I support Carl's case.
    11.25%
    9
    I support Urban's case.
    3.75%
    3

  • #2
    1. Blyleven
    2. Mays
    --------------> Hall of Fame line
    3. Shocker
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

    Comment


    • #3
      --Blyleven is head and shoulders above the other two.

      Comment


      • #4
        Blyleven
        -------------------->a gap of some distance
        Mays
        ---------------------> HOF in/out line. Mays and Shocker are close to this line IMO.
        Shocker
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment


        • #5
          Roughly I agree with jim albright

          Bert Blyleven
          g
          a
          p
          -- their contemporary Wilbur Cooper is a little stronger candidate
          -----------------
          Shocker and Mays are both in the margin. I can' t make it a border line, and it isn't that I need glasses.
          -----------------

          Comment


          • #6
            Blyleven is a no-brainer of course....

            Based on raw stats, Mays has a slight edge over Shocker, but it is important to remember that Shocker played with mostly poor defenses, whereas Mays had tons of help behind him. If you looked at how many runs each would have allowed on nuetral defenses, Shocker would be noticeably better. Mays' hitting and postseason play is an equalizer, but after recent analysis, I would say Shocker might be more deserving. Both guys are right on that borderline, in my opinion.
            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

            Comment


            • #7
              Blyleven - 60 shutouts
              Mays & Shocker - 57 shutouts

              I voted for Bert Blyleven.

              Comment


              • #8
                I voted Blyleven, but also voted that all three are deserving. I don't think Shocker is a HOFer, but I do think both Blyleven and Mays are HOFers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Blyleven should be in. Mays is borderline for me and because of that, he should stay out (I reserve the right to change my mind tomorrow).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Blyleven and Mays should be in.

                    Shocker has a good case. He would have gone into the HOF had he not taken ill; his death caused him to fall short of 200 wins.

                    Shocker pitched in a heavy hitting era, where wins were harder to come by, due to the conditions of the game. His ERA vs. league is what you'd expect a HOFer's to be. He's the guy the voters SHOULD have put in for his era, rather than Waite Hoyt, Herb Pennock, Jesse Haines, and Rube Marquard, even falling short of 200.
                    "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

                    NL President Ford Frick, 1947

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I really think some members are shorting Shocker on his deserved credit, based on his era. The 20's were unforgiving to the pitching guild. But his ERA+ was the highest of the 3. And his total wins were similarly lowered due to pitching for the Browns, who only had a good team in 1922. Plus he died early.

                      Tough house.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        To me Mays is a borderline case who gets in on the basis of some pretty neat peripherals, something Shocker (who is only just behind Mays statistically speaking) doesn't have. Mays was, in many ways, a historically great pitcher. I can't say the same for Shocker.
                        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Blyleven is the clear choice here and an HoFer in my mind. The other two are more problematic, but if I had to pick one I'd pick Shocker.
                          Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Shocker known as the Yankee killer? And didn't they buy him from the Browns so he wouldn't keep beating them?

                            I might very easily be wrong on that, as the faltering memory of an old man can sometimes stagger along on dying fumes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bill Burgess View Post
                              Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Shocker known as the Yankee killer? And didn't they buy him from the Browns so he wouldn't keep beating them?

                              I might very easily be wrong on that, as the faltering memory of an old man can sometimes stagger along on dying fumes.
                              His obituary calls him a "Yankee nemesis".

                              Frank Lary was "The Yankee Killer".
                              Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                              Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                              Comment

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