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Welcome to The Ultimate Quest for Candidates – Round 3. This thread will have the second poll in the third round, combining the leading players from the polls for the 1870’s-80’s and the 1890’s-1900’s. Refer to the Round 1 threads for discussion and links to biographies.
There will be 14 players on the ballot. You will be asked to vote for 5 (FIVE) players. These 11 players automatically advanced to this round by their top finishes in the Round 2 polls:
Rd.1 Rd.2
85% 93% Bill Dahlen
100% 81% Deacon White
92% 72% George Van Haltren
100% 69% Ross Barnes
82% 67% Jimmy Sheckard
65% 56% Paul Hines
92% 50% Jimmy Ryan
78% 50% Tommy Leach
93% 44% Joe Start
65% 38% Harry Stovey
62% 38% Bob Caruthers
We need to decide who will get the other three spots on the ballot. There are nine runners-up who are under consideration:
79% 44% Cupid Childs
65% 31% Tony Mullane
61% 31% Pete Browning
48% 31% Charlie Bennett
39% 31% George Gore
63% 28% Herman Long
22% 27% Johnny Kling
60% 25% Dickey Pearce
51% 21% Mike Donlin
My personal picks are probably Gore, Bennett and Childs. Your input on this issue is strongly requested as we look to develop a consensus.
Below are the players we voted as the top 20 HOF candidates whose careers centered from 1865 to 1909.
Pos – primary position(s)
BJ – rank at his position in the New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (2001)
Win Shares – shown are career total and best 3 years
WARP3 – from Baseball Prospectus; shown are career total and best 3 years
Some other things to be aware of:
1) Bill James’ rankings emphasize players’ peak years; this results in long steady careers being rated lower than what may seem right.
2) For 1890s and 1900s players, win shares in seasons before 1904 are increased to adjust them to a 154-game season (actually, to a 152-decision level). For 1870's/80's players, win shares are “raw”, straight from the book. Before the poll is up, I hope to get a chance to post adjusted numbers for Hines, Stovey, Caruthers, Bennett, Browning and Gore.
3) You should look to credit these players with minor league or pre-professional play. I have not systematically attempted this.
4) The latest WARP revision modified the numbers of the 1890's/1900's players from the Round 2 thread.
That leaves 10 players that dropped out of consideration after Round 2: Lave Cross, Jack Glasscock, Dummy Hoy, Fielder Jones, Cal McVey, Hardy Richardson, Cy Seymour, Ezra Sutton, Roy Thomas and Mike Tiernan. Each of these candidates drew less than 16% support in Round 2.
There will be 14 players on the ballot. You will be asked to vote for 5 (FIVE) players. These 11 players automatically advanced to this round by their top finishes in the Round 2 polls:
Rd.1 Rd.2
85% 93% Bill Dahlen
100% 81% Deacon White
92% 72% George Van Haltren
100% 69% Ross Barnes
82% 67% Jimmy Sheckard
65% 56% Paul Hines
92% 50% Jimmy Ryan
78% 50% Tommy Leach
93% 44% Joe Start
65% 38% Harry Stovey
62% 38% Bob Caruthers
We need to decide who will get the other three spots on the ballot. There are nine runners-up who are under consideration:
79% 44% Cupid Childs
65% 31% Tony Mullane
61% 31% Pete Browning
48% 31% Charlie Bennett
39% 31% George Gore
63% 28% Herman Long
22% 27% Johnny Kling
60% 25% Dickey Pearce
51% 21% Mike Donlin
My personal picks are probably Gore, Bennett and Childs. Your input on this issue is strongly requested as we look to develop a consensus.
Below are the players we voted as the top 20 HOF candidates whose careers centered from 1865 to 1909.
Code:
Pos BJ Player Name Win Shares WARP3 4 --- Ross Barnes 1868-81 (71.9: 14.9-12.0-11.8) 1 #88 Bob Caruthers (337: 57-54-51) (62.3: 12.0-11.5-9.4) 6 #21 Bill Dahlen (426: 37-33-27) (127.9: 10.4-9.5-9.0) 8 #53 Paul Hines (249: 28-22-19) (105.3: 11.8-10.3-8.9) 5/8 #20 Tommy Leach (334: 31-30-29) (86.3: 9.4-8.2-8.2) 8/9 #26 Jimmy Ryan (351: 37-29-28) (84.5: 8.8-8.5-6.4) 7 #24 Jimmy Sheckard (353: 37-37-30) (93.5: 10.8-9.7-9.4) 3 #107 Joe Start 1862-86 (67.5: 7.1-6.5-6.3) 7/3 #39 Harry Stovey (265: 28-28-26) (76.6: 9.4-9.2-8.3) 8 #28 Geo Van Haltren (359: 29-28-27) (82.2: 7.8-7.5-6.8) 5/2 #76 Deacon White 1869-90 (110.1: 10.6-10.1-9.6) at-large candidates 2 #49 Charlie Bennett (157: 19-18-15) (79.3: 10.1-9.9-9.6) 8/7 #38 Pete Browning (225: 30-28-23) (63.7: 9.3-8.5-7.9) 4 #26 Cupid Childs (263: 33-33-32) (80.8: 12.0-11.0-8.4) 8 #52 Mike Donlin (180: 36-31-26) (44.8: 10.1-9.8-6.0) 8 #40 George Gore (250: 30-26-24) (91.9: 11.7-9.5-8.8) 2 #48 Johnny Kling (160: 24-22-21) (55.4: 8.7-8.2-7.7) 6 #34 Herman Long (292: 32-31-28) (78.7: 10.0-7.5-7.2) 1 #82 Tony Mullane (399: 58-55-46) (46.3: 7.1-6.5-6.3) 6 --- Dickey Pearce 1856-77
BJ – rank at his position in the New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (2001)
Win Shares – shown are career total and best 3 years
WARP3 – from Baseball Prospectus; shown are career total and best 3 years
Some other things to be aware of:
1) Bill James’ rankings emphasize players’ peak years; this results in long steady careers being rated lower than what may seem right.
2) For 1890s and 1900s players, win shares in seasons before 1904 are increased to adjust them to a 154-game season (actually, to a 152-decision level). For 1870's/80's players, win shares are “raw”, straight from the book. Before the poll is up, I hope to get a chance to post adjusted numbers for Hines, Stovey, Caruthers, Bennett, Browning and Gore.
3) You should look to credit these players with minor league or pre-professional play. I have not systematically attempted this.
4) The latest WARP revision modified the numbers of the 1890's/1900's players from the Round 2 thread.
That leaves 10 players that dropped out of consideration after Round 2: Lave Cross, Jack Glasscock, Dummy Hoy, Fielder Jones, Cal McVey, Hardy Richardson, Cy Seymour, Ezra Sutton, Roy Thomas and Mike Tiernan. Each of these candidates drew less than 16% support in Round 2.
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