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The case for Tommy John as a HOFer

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  • The case for Tommy John as a HOFer

    If you are not impressed with his career numbers, you should agree that he is a HOFer because of the surgery, named after him, that all injured pitchers have. That is a landmark in the history of the game.

    (Taking a chance this hasnt been brought up on this forum before.)

  • #2
    Originally posted by vasprtsfn
    you should agree that he is a HOFer because of the surgery, named after him, that all injured pitchers have.
    I should, but I don't.

    How about the first guy who put ice on his arm after a game? Should he go in too? I mean kudos to the guy, for being able to work past the surgery and still have a good career, and to have lasted as long as he did, but he just plain wasn't good enough to get in.

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    • #3
      Yeah its not as if he created the surgery. A doctor did, he just happened to be the first to have the surgery. So if he got into the HOF because of that it would be quite ridculous. You might as well induct the doctor who performed it. He did have a great career (12 wins short of 300) But because he had the first tommy john surgery does not qualify him as a hall of famer. You should focus on his stats for HOF induction, not getting surgery.
      go sox.

      Pigskin-Fever

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      • #4
        Originally posted by RedSoxVT92
        Yeah its not as if he created the surgery. A doctor did, he just happened to be the first to have the surgery. So if he got into the HOF because of that it would be quite ridculous. You might as well induct the doctor who performed it. He did have a great career (12 wins short of 300) But because he had the first tommy john surgery does not qualify him as a hall of famer. You should focus on his stats for HOF induction, not getting surgery.
        I was kidding about what I said.

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        • #5
          Do you feel that he belongs on the merits of his pitching career, though?

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          • #6
            His career was arguably better than WHoyt, BWalters, Lemon, Bender, Chesbro, Pennock, Marquard, Hunter, and Haines.
            It was also arguably worse than Blyleven, JMcCormick, Mullane, DLeonard, Pierce, Bridges, Saberhagen, Caruthers ...
            Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
            Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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            • #7
              Originally posted by The Commissioner
              Do you feel that he belongs on the merits of his pitching career, though?
              Yes, I do think he is a HOF based on his career numbers.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by RuthMayBond
                His career was arguably better than WHoyt, BWalters, Lemon, Bender, Chesbro, Pennock, Marquard, Hunter, and Haines.
                It was also arguably worse than Blyleven, JMcCormick, Mullane, DLeonard, Pierce, Bridges, Saberhagen, Caruthers ...
                So is that a "yes", a "no", or an "undecided" from your point of view?

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                • #9
                  It is a yes. He is a HOFer.

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                  • #10
                    When did Bucky Walters get in the Hall of Fame?
                    Either way, John has to get in line behind every pitcher RMB mentioned who's on the outside currently.
                    Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
                      When did Bucky Walters get in the Hall of Fame?
                      My bad, I got him mixed up with someone else

                      <Either way, John has to get in line behind every pitcher RMB mentioned who's on the outside currently.>

                      Why can't he get in front of the Hall of Famers I mentioned?
                      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                      Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Commissioner
                        So is that a "yes", a "no", or an "undecided" from your point of view?
                        I used to think I might be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure
                        Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                        Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RuthMayBond
                          My bad, I got him mixed up with someone else

                          <Either way, John has to get in line behind every pitcher RMB mentioned who's on the outside currently.>

                          Why can't he get in front of the Hall of Famers I mentioned?
                          He probably could, but I'm not a fan of covering up mistakes by becoming more inclusive. John's a victim of circumstance there. No rings or awards to go with all those wins. He needed more "fame" for what he did on the diamond, something the others were able to obtain.
                          Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                          Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                          Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                          Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                          Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
                            No rings or awards to go with all those wins. He needed more "fame" for what he did on the diamond, something the others were able to obtain.
                            John should have won the '79 Cy Young. And you're gonna go by team things (rings)?
                            Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                            Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RuthMayBond
                              John should have won the '79 Cy Young. And you're gonna go by team things (rings)?
                              John didn't.
                              Contributing to a team championship goes further in the minds of the public than being a perennial also-ran. Right or wrong, whos picture is on page one the day after the world series goes further than who's just listed in the boxscore.
                              Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                              Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                              Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                              Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                              Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

                              Comment

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