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  • Pujols: On Pace

    Everyone knows Albert Pujols has "Hall of Fame talent" and anyone can "predict" that he'll be elected someday if he keeps it up. I've long been curious how Pujols' accomplishments at such a tender age stack up against other ballplayers in history.

    Albert Pujols has 180 career win shares, thru his age 25 season. I was curious if this was a record and, if not, how many have exceeded that total by the same age. Here's the answer:

    Most Career Win Shares, Non-Pitcher, thru Age-25 Season*

    273 Ty Cobb
    248 Mickey Mantle
    231 Babe Ruth
    213 Mel Ott
    203 Jimmie Foxx
    190 Sherry Magee
    190 Arky Vaughan
    189 Rogers Hornsby
    187 Eddie Mathews
    184 Alex Rodriguez
    184 Tris Speaker
    180 Albert Pujols
    177 Hank Aaron
    170 Johnny Bench
    169 Cesar Cedeno
    164 Eddie Collins
    162 Vada Pinson
    161 Joe Medwick
    159 Joe DiMaggio
    157 Rickey Henderson
    156 Joe Jackson
    155 Frank Robinson
    154 Orlando Cepeda
    154 Elmer Smith
    153 Roberto Alomar

    * I excluded pitchers from the list else it would have been clogged down with 19th century and deadball pitchers.

    While that's certainly impressive company, I think this list also reminds us that despite a hot start to his career, Cooperstown isn't a guarantee for Phat Albert.
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

  • #2
    Yeah, if Coop were win shares, he'd just be ahead of almost all the HOFers.
    CLEVELAND INDIANS Central Division Champions

    1920 1948 1954 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2001 2007

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    • #3
      Some of the guys ahead started much younger than Pujols who was 21 when he debuted. Cobb, Ott, Foxx, A-Rod, Mantle, and Hornsby were teenagers, and Matthews, Vaughn were 20 years old when they debuted.
      Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 03-15-2006, 07:31 PM.
      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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      • #4
        I agree

        The only thing keeping Pujols out of the HOF now is that he has less than 10 years in the bigs.

        Comment


        • #5
          If he's 25, that is.
          "Hall of Famer Whitey Ford now on the field... pleading with the crowd for, for some kind of sanity!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by iPod
            If he's 25, that is.
            There's no evidence that he isn't 26 (1/26/80).
            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

            Comment


            • #7
              If Pujol's age is fake, we would have known it by now

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Naliamegod
                If Pujol's age is fake, we would have known it by now
                Probably, I'm just throwing it out there.
                "Hall of Famer Whitey Ford now on the field... pleading with the crowd for, for some kind of sanity!"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chancellor
                  Everyone knows Albert Pujols has "Hall of Fame talent" and anyone can "predict" that he'll be elected someday if he keeps it up. I've long been curious how Pujols' accomplishments at such a tender age stack up against other ballplayers in history.

                  Albert Pujols has 180 career win shares, thru his age 25 season. I was curious if this was a record and, if not, how many have exceeded that total by the same age. Here's the answer:

                  Most Career Win Shares, Non-Pitcher, thru Age-25 Season*

                  273 Ty Cobb
                  248 Mickey Mantle
                  231 Babe Ruth
                  213 Mel Ott
                  203 Jimmie Foxx
                  190 Sherry Magee
                  190 Arky Vaughan
                  189 Rogers Hornsby
                  187 Eddie Mathews
                  184 Alex Rodriguez
                  184 Tris Speaker
                  180 Albert Pujols
                  177 Hank Aaron
                  170 Johnny Bench
                  169 Cesar Cedeno
                  164 Eddie Collins
                  162 Vada Pinson
                  161 Joe Medwick
                  159 Joe DiMaggio
                  157 Rickey Henderson
                  156 Joe Jackson
                  155 Frank Robinson
                  154 Orlando Cepeda
                  154 Elmer Smith
                  153 Roberto Alomar

                  * I excluded pitchers from the list else it would have been clogged down with 19th century and deadball pitchers.

                  While that's certainly impressive company, I think this list also reminds us that despite a hot start to his career, Cooperstown isn't a guarantee for Phat Albert.
                  That's true, but of the 12 retired players that had at least 170 win shares by age 25, only Sherry Magee is not in the Hall, and he has a pretty good case to be in there, A-Rod will almost certainly make it if he retired today, making it 12/13. So I'd say things are looking pretty good for Pujols at this point

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I RCAA Pujols ranks 7th at age 25.

                    RCAA
                    1 Ty Cobb 537
                    2 Mickey Mantle 511
                    3 Jimmie Foxx 465
                    4 Ted Williams 407
                    5 Mel Ott 394
                    6 Joe Jackson 357
                    7 Albert Pujols 356

                    That is rarefied air.
                    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DoubleX
                      That's true, but of the 12 retired players that had at least 170 win shares by age 25, only Sherry Magee is not in the Hall, and he has a pretty good case to be in there...
                      One difference between Magee and most of the others: Magee's career was over long before a Hall of Fame was established in Cooperstown. Other than the all-time legends (Cobb, Ruth, Hornsby), the others came up under the watchful eye of the same writers who would later decide their Hall of Fame case, twenty years down the road.

                      Magee contemporary Jimmy Sheckard, by the way, is just a few spots removed from that list.
                      "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                      "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                      "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                      "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by iPod
                        Probably, I'm just throwing it out there.
                        Where do you even get the slightest idea to hint at a suggestion that he's not 26?
                        CLEVELAND INDIANS Central Division Champions

                        1920 1948 1954 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2001 2007

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BoofBonser26
                          Where do you even get the slightest idea to hint at a suggestion that he's not 26?
                          He probably is, I've never really thought about it. But we've talked about Pedro maybe being older than he's listed, the Giants have a guy Pedro Feliz who it turned out was older than the Giants originally thought, etc. I didn't mean to sound snide in my first post.
                          "Hall of Famer Whitey Ford now on the field... pleading with the crowd for, for some kind of sanity!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm just learning about win shares, adjustments due to league averages, different eras etc, and the like, but the HOF doesn't go by these measurements alone, or in some cases, it appears the HOF does not care about them at all.

                            In some of the more traditional measurements, Pujols is the best young hitter of all time.

                            No player has EVER exceeded the following in EACH of his first THREE seasons in the big leagues.

                            .300 average, 30 Homers, 100 RBI's and 100 Runs scored.

                            What no-one else has ever done for more than two straight seasons to start a career, Pujols has done in ALL FIVE of his, and he has blown away each of those figures, at .320+, 40+, 120+ and 110+ for five consecutive years.

                            If he does it again this season, his sixth, he will have surpassed .300, 30, 100 and 100 for THREE TIMES LONGER than any other player EVER has to start his career. That to me, is saying something.

                            If you have a TV, watch this guy. If you don't have a TV, go steal one... so you may watch this guy.

                            (Invites all Cardinals fans to say a prayer for Albert's health............ Amen.)
                            "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have never really payed attention to win shares because I dont think they are all that rellivent. Pujols is most deffienlty on pace to HOF induction. Right now he is averageing 40.2 homers a season. And if he plays for say 10 more years thats 603 home runs for his whole career. But it is still early and as long as he can avoid injurys he has a very good shot at cooperstown.
                              Last edited by RedSoxVT92; 03-16-2006, 04:34 PM.
                              go sox.

                              Pigskin-Fever

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