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**Naliamegod** · 03-19-2006, 05:00 PM

Are you saying that Bowa is comparable to Scooter? I think not

**538280** · 03-19-2006, 05:35 PM

You need to look beyond the career totals. Rizzuto's career totals aren't very good, but he also had a good peak (1950 MVP), was a fantantic fielder, and missed three full seasons to the war.

I don't really think Rizzuto belongs in the Hall, but he's far from the worst player in there and light years better than Bowa. Your comparison really means nothing.

**Chadwick** · 03-19-2006, 05:44 PM

Apparently, Bowa just didn't have Scooter's "intangibles."

**iPod** · 03-19-2006, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by philsphan

In no way shape or form am i saying Larry Bowa is even close to being a hall of famer but look at the Bowa to Rizzuto ratios:

R:Bowa-987 Rizzuto-877 Bowa wins
H:Bowa-2191 Rizzuto-1588 Bowa wins
2B:Bowa-262 Rizzuto-239 Bowa wins
3B:Bowa-99 Rizzuto-62 Bowa wins
HR:Bowa-15 Rizzuto-38 Rizzuto wins
RBI:Bowa-525 Rizzuto-563 Rizzuto wins
BB:Bowa-474 Rizzuto-651 Rizzuto wins
SO:Bowa-569 Rizzuto-398 Rizzuto wins
AVG:Bowa-260 Rizzuto-273 Rizzuto wins
OBP:Bowa-300 Rizzuto-351 Rizzuto wins
SLG:Bowa-320 Rizzuto-355 Rizzuto wins
PO:Bowa-3323 Rizzuto-3220 Bowa wins
A:Bowa-6864 Rizzuto-4666 Bowa wins
E:Bowa-211 Rizzuto-263 Bowa wins
DP:Bowa-1267 Rizzuto-1217 Bowa wins
FLD%:Bowa-980 Rizzuto-968 Bowa wins
SB:Bowa-318 Rizzuto-149 Bowa wins

Out of 17 major categories Bowa beats Rizzuto in in 10 of them. After looking at Scooters stats Vrs. Bowas I really think you cannot say Rizzuto would be in the Hall of Fame if he was not on the most succsesful team in history. Now this isnt a knock on Phil saying he is a terrible player; I mean he put up some pretty good numbers but not Hall of Fame numbers. This is basicly a way of saying Phil Rizutto is not a hall of Fame type player. He is in the Hall of Fame because of his 9 World Srries. PERIOD.

Yeah, Rizzuto wouldn't be in had he not been on the Yankees. But your comparison is misleading... career doubles and triples, for example, aren't worth nearly the same as career on-base and slugging percentages, but you add them up the same. You make no adjustment for the different eras they played in. Also, you make no allowance for peak performance; Rizzuto was an MVP, after all.

**KCGHOST** · 03-19-2006, 10:50 PM

Bowa was a miserable hitter by any measure. Rizzuto was almost a league average hitter. Scooter is a pretty marginal HoFer, but Bowa isn't even close to being in any conversation about the Hall.

**philsphan** · 03-20-2006, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by iPod

Yeah, Rizzuto wouldn't be in had he not been on the Yankees. But your comparison is misleading... career doubles and triples, for example, aren't worth nearly the same as career on-base and slugging percentages, but you add them up the same. You make no adjustment for the different eras they played in. Also, you make no allowance for peak performance; Rizzuto was an MVP, after all.

this guy makes a good point i will agree with this

**philsphan** · 03-20-2006, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by KCGHOST

Bowa was a miserable hitter by any measure. Rizzuto was almost a league average hitter. Scooter is a pretty marginal HoFer, but Bowa isn't even close to being in any conversation about the Hall.

i never said bowa should be in the hall. it is actualy sad to even think about him being in the hall but scooter was a hall of fame type leader; not player
this is not to say that bowa is a better player because he is not, i just chose him because he was the first shortstop i could think to compare statisticwise
What i am trying to say is that Scooter should not be in the hall. He was a good player who looked great cause of his team.
and please do not think of this as me being a biased philly fan

**Cougar** · 03-24-2006, 08:34 PM

I remember Howard Eskin (a notorious Philadelphia sports talk host) making this comparison on WIP way back when Scooter got into the HOF.

I basically agree with the other posters -- there's a surface similarity in the stats but a whole lot favors Rizzuto once one goes to a deeper level of analysis.

One additional factor that hasn't been mentioned is Rizzuto missed time for WWII. If he'd played those years and had even very ordinary seasons, he'd surely have more impressive counting stats and would be less similar to Bowa.

**ElHalo** · 03-24-2006, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by 538280

You need to look beyond the career totals. Rizzuto's career totals aren't very good, but he also had a good peak (1950 MVP), was a fantantic fielder, and missed three full seasons to the war.

I don't really think Rizzuto belongs in the Hall, but he's far from the worst player in there and light years better than Bowa. Your comparison really means nothing.

I completely agree with this.

Scooter is the victim of a very weird phenomena: some players get built up and built up and built up by people who may or may not have had a good reason for it (Scooter's career as an announcer probably had as much to do with his Hall induction as his playing career did), and get wildly overrated... and then there's a backlash against them that is so vicious that they turn out in the end to actually be underrated. No, Scooter wasn't anywhere near as good as Ty Cobb said he was. Yes, he was much, much better than common perception now seems to see him.

Hank Aaron is a victim of a similar sort of phenomenon: Casual baseball fans, blinded by the career totals, automatically assumed him to be the greatest player of all time, massively overrate him... which cause more serious fans, in an attempt to almost stem the outside enthusiasm, to probably underrate him.

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