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  • Entering their 10th season

    The following seem to me to be the only players worth considering that are entering their tenth season, in 2006, and thus would make them eligible for the Hall:

    Todd Helton
    Miguel Tejada
    Bartolo Colon
    Richie Sexson

    I know both fell off a little last year, but Helton and Tejada seem every bit on their way to the Hall so far. I'm a little bit skeptical about Colon. Even though he has the Cy Young Award, and I believe he is the winningest pitcher since 2000, and among the top three since 1998, I don't think he'll play enough years to rack up some impressive career stats. Sexson has enough power that he could reach 500 home runs, or he could end up like Dave Kingman.

    What are your thoughts on these 4 players, and are there any others entering their tenth year that ares shaping up to be considerations for the Hall?

  • #2
    If Helton makes the HoF, I'll fricking vomit. He's a slightly better version of Ryan Klesko...:grouchy
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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    • #3
      I always wonder how voters perceive the Coors factor. I mean, everybody knows it helps hitters, but that didn't stop the voters from giving Larry Walker the MVP in 1997. Larry Walker is one of only a handful of 3-4-5 guys (lifetime .300 batting average, .400 on base percentage, and .500 slugging percantage), and every other eligible retired player with those lifetime averages is in the hall. Of course we all know Walker would not have achieved this without Coors, but again, voters still gave him the MVP. And it seems like most think that Helton is better than Walker. Helton seems like the most likely of the four players I mentioned to make it to the Hall, because I think people tend to lose sight of park effects, but they always have the raw stats to look at. And if you don't take into account the Coors park effects, then his stats are awfully impressive.

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      • #4
        I'm not willing to just dismiss Helton as a complete product of Coors. I know the splits, but he has great discipline and is a very good pure hitter. He is also, an awesome defensive 1B, for whatever that's worth. I think the Larry Walker experiment will tell us a lot about Helton's eventual chances.

        I'm not big on Bartolo at all.

        I think Tejeda is overrated, but based on positional arguments he could finish with a pretty good case.

        Sexson, is a quality player and often overlooked as a potent offensive force, but the Hall is not in the realm of possibility. He has done nothing to make himself standout from a host of other quality players and sluggers at his position.
        THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

        In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

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        • #5
          I'd say none of the four seem all that likely...Sexson would NEED 500 homers, and even then he'd probably only be a "maybe". I agree that Colon might not put up the longevity, and to this point, he hasn't had enough of a peak to put him in, most likely. Helton and Tejada could have a shot if they keep going at their current paces. I'd say Helton is probably a better shot than Tejada at this point, although a lot depends on how voters look at Coors. If Helton is borderline WITH Coors, he won't make it, if he's a statistical lock before you take ballpark into effect, he might still get in.
          Visit my card site at Mike D's Baseball Card Page.

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          • #6
            Todd Helton - I'm OK with him, at this point

            Miguel Tejada - I think he's very close, probably 1 or 2 Tejada-esque years would do it for me

            Bartolo Colon - needs more time, Jack Morris has a lower ERA

            Richie Sexson - right now, he's not doin' it for me

            Magglio Ordonez - no, not now, I think lost his chances?

            David Ortiz - Last few look good, but, for me, it's too soon

            Jose Vidro - I don't think so

            Keith Foulke - no

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            • #7
              Walker though was also a five tool player, gold glove outfielder and a good and smart baserunner. Helton is a vacuum at first, but that's relatively insignificant, ask Keith Hernandez.
              THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

              In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by micsmith
                I always wonder how voters perceive the Coors factor. I mean, everybody knows it helps hitters, but that didn't stop the voters from giving Larry Walker the MVP in 1997. Larry Walker is one of only a handful of 3-4-5 guys (lifetime .300 batting average, .400 on base percentage, and .500 slugging percantage), and every other eligible retired player with those lifetime averages is in the hall. Of course we all know Walker would not have achieved this without Coors, but again, voters still gave him the MVP. And it seems like most think that Helton is better than Walker. Helton seems like the most likely of the four players I mentioned to make it to the Hall, because I think people tend to lose sight of park effects, but they always have the raw stats to look at. And if you don't take into account the Coors park effects, then his stats are awfully impressive.
                Walkwer was the better player. Walker was actually good before Coors. He was an excellent player in Montreal. Helton is quite literally a slightly better version of Ryan Klesko. I've compared their career road stats per 162 games:


                Helton: .297/.397/.518, 88 R, 170 H, 44 doubles, 26 HR, 90 RBI, 3 SB
                Klesko: .280/.372/.520, 84 R, 149 H, 35 doubles, 29 HR, 99 RBI, 8 SB

                They seem pretty even to me with Helton having a slight edge. So if Helton is a HoF candidate is Klesko a HoF candidate as well?
                Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 03-21-2006, 10:49 AM.
                Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                • #9
                  For what its worth, micsmith stated that every retired player with a career .300/.400/.500 line who is eligible is in. With a normal home advantage Helton would have those numbers. I know much can be made of era and all as well, but that is why I said Walker will be a big test case.
                  THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

                  In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Bartlo Colon looks to have over 2000+ IP, 1500+ Ks, and 150+ Wins in his first ten years, which is pretty good. If he had only started younger (I think he was 24 when he was a rookie), then he might be prjected to pitch for 20 seasons. But that's kinda doubtful. His high ERA is the thing that makes me think he won't be able to keep up his success, especially if the Angels' offense declines or he goes to another team with a weak offense. Nevertheless, he has two 20-win seasons, a couple of all-star games, and a pretty impressive winning percentage. He's an outside shot at this time.

                    Richie Sexson: reminds me of Jim Thome - Home Runs and Strikeouts
                    Through 9 seasons, Sexson has had 3623 AB with 239 HR and 973 Ks; Through 10 seasons, Thome had 3634 AB with 233 HR and 1053 Ks. Sexson had more RBIs at this point, but Thome was better in virtually every other category.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
                      If Helton makes the HoF, I'll fricking vomit. He's a slightly better version of Ryan Klesko...:grouchy
                      Even without Coors, Helton's numbers are very impressive.

                      G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
                      Home 647 2326 582 871 203 17 168 565 410 273 22 10 .374 .468 .693 1.161
                      Away 632 2234 342 664 170 7 103 350 363 349 11 13 .297 .397 .518 .915

                      Away from Coors, he has nearly a 300 average, 400 OBP, and over 500 slugging. Hardly numbers that make me want to vomit. Certianly he isn't as good as his overall numbers look, but it seems to me that he would be on a HOF track even without Coors. And I don't care how much Coors helps a player, Helton's slugging at Coors in nearly 700 and his BA is 374! That's freakin high!

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                      • #12
                        Ryan Klesko for the Hall of Fame

                        I live in San Diego, so I say yes, Ryan Klesko is a Hall of Famer.
                        Seriously, that guy kills me.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The only one I would consider is Helton. And that will require more examination of his Coors numbers. He may well generate sufficent counting numbers that we have to consider him. Klesko has zero chance of generating HoF caliber counting numbers.

                          I have always likes Walker, but injuries have prevented him from piling up the numbers you need to be an HoF RFer. The quality is there, just not the quantity.
                          Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KCGHOST
                            The only one I would consider is Helton. And that will require more examination of his Coors numbers. He may well generate sufficent counting numbers that we have to consider him. Klesko has zero chance of generating HoF caliber counting numbers.
                            I agree on Klesko and that Helton has a shot. I mean, Coors has been around for what, 12 seasons? Are we not going to allow ANY Colorado player to ever make the HOF? In a dozen seasons, Helton is the only one who's done what he's done for this long in Coors, and as others pointed out, his road numbers are nice.

                            I have always likes Walker, but injuries have prevented him from piling up the numbers you need to be an HoF RFer. The quality is there, just not the quantity.
                            I agree...great player, but injuries kept him from putting up the numbers he'd need for HOF consideration.
                            Visit my card site at Mike D's Baseball Card Page.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pine Tar
                              Even without Coors, Helton's numbers are very impressive.

                              G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
                              Home 647 2326 582 871 203 17 168 565 410 273 22 10 .374 .468 .693 1.161
                              Away 632 2234 342 664 170 7 103 350 363 349 11 13 .297 .397 .518 .915

                              Away from Coors, he has nearly a 300 average, 400 OBP, and over 500 slugging. Hardly numbers that make me want to vomit. Certianly he isn't as good as his overall numbers look, but it seems to me that he would be on a HOF track even without Coors. And I don't care how much Coors helps a player, [b]Helton's slugging at Coors in nearly 700 and his BA is 374! That's freakin high![b/]
                              Of course it's high. It's Coors Field! Without Coors he's Ryan Klesko. A "power-hitting" first baseman with a career .518 road slugging in the juiced HR era? Tha't is simply not impressive at all.
                              Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                              Comment

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