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**dgarza** · 03-21-2006, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by NOMAR22

Yankee pitcher.

Is this supposed to be a "credit"?

Anyway, I say he is, just barely.

**RedSoxVT92** · 03-21-2006, 01:29 PM

He was a good pitcher and very good defensivley (5 GG) But I would not consider him a HOF pitcher. But being a yankee pitcher would hurt his HOF chances because he had a very good team behind him giving him more run support. And his era was never that great after 1981 even though getting two more 20 win seasons. Also longevitey plays an issue playing in only 11 full seasons (discluding the 1981 season) Also was not a very dominant pitcher during most of the 80's. So a very good pitcher but just falling short of the hall of fame.

**NOMAR22** · 03-21-2006, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by RedSoxVT92

He was a good pitcher and very good defensivley (5 GG) But I would not consider him a HOF pitcher. But being a yankee pitcher would hurt his HOF chances because he had a very good team behind him giving him more run support. And his era was never that great after 1981 even though getting two more 20 win seasons. Also longevitey plays an issue playing in only 11 full seasons (discluding the 1981 season) Also was not a very dominant pitcher during most of the 80's. So a very good pitcher but just falling short of the hall of fame.

Guidry became a starter at the age of 27,thats why he only had 11 full seasons.Guidry had a good team behind him but thats was the Yankees 1977-1981, the other teams were barely above .500. Ron Guidry was the best yankee pitcher from 1966-2000. No other Yankee pitcher was as good during that ERA. That counts for something.

**KCGHOST** · 03-21-2006, 01:36 PM

His career was too small for me and is bolstered by playing for good clubs (neutral wins are 17 less than actual). There are weaker pitchers in the HoF, but most of them are mistakes.

**NOMAR22** · 03-21-2006, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by dgarza

Is this supposed to be a "credit"?

Anyway, I say he is, just barely.

I agree he barely should make it in the Veterans commitee. Ron Guidry is better than alot of HOF.

**dgarza** · 03-21-2006, 01:41 PM

I say he is, just barely, but I have no hopes of him coming close to making it.

**dgarza** · 03-21-2006, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by NOMAR22

Ron Guidry was the best yankee pitcher from 1966-2000. No other Yankee pitcher was as good during that ERA. That counts for something.

Teddy Higuera was arguablly the best Brewer pitcher from 1966-2000.

**Bothrops Atrox** · 03-21-2006, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by NOMAR22

I agree he barely should make it in the Veterans commitee. Ron Guidry is better than alot of HOF.

Alot? Haines. Marquard. Chesbro. Maybe Hoyt, Grimes, Pennock, Rixey or Hunter. Many would argue Willis. But "alot"? I guess it depends on your definition of alot.

There are quite a few pitchers who are more deserving (not neccesarily deserving, just more so) but not in than Guidry: Blyleven, Mullane, Gossage, Mays, John, Kaat, Pierce, Bridges, L. Smith, Leever, maybe Ferell, etc. Not to mention current pitchers who are better but will also never make it: Mussina, Brown, Schilling.

**micsmith** · 03-21-2006, 01:57 PM

I'd vote against Ron Guidry, even though that is one impressive winning percentage.

**NOMAR22** · 03-21-2006, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by STLCards2

Alot? Haines. Marquard. Chesbro. Maybe Hoyt, Grimes, Pennock, Rixey or Hunter. Many would argue Willis. But "alot"? I guess it depends on your definition of alot.

There are quite a few pitchers who are more deserving (not neccesarily deserving, just more so) but not in than Guidry: Blyleven, Mullane, Gossage, Mays, John, Kaat, Pierce, Bridges, L. Smith, Leever, maybe Ferell, etc. Not to mention current pitchers who are better but will also never make it: Mussina, Brown, Schilling.

Compare Guidry's number with Pennock

Pennock won 240-162 in 22 years,only SO 1,227, allowed 3,900 hits in 3,572 IP,only 35 sho,ERA 3.62 career,won only 20 games 2 times,had 5 losing seasons, best year was 21-9 2.83 era ,101 SO,4 sho,302 hits in 286 ip,i made my case for RON GUIDRY.

Billy Pierce had Guidry numbers but was not as good. Tommy John was not as good as Ron Guidry,T. John has better numbers because he pitched 25 years.Kaat belongs in the HOF so does Tommy john i saw both pitch.

I don't think Mussina nor K.Brown were as good as Ron Guidry in there prime. I saw Guidry pitch in his prime,he was the top 3 pitchers in the league .
Schilling is KO pitcher. But i think hes over rated.

**NOMAR22** · 03-21-2006, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by micsmith

I'd vote against Ron Guidry, even though that is one impressive winning percentage.

Did you ever see him pitch? If not your vote should not really count.

**NOMAR22** · 03-21-2006, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by dgarza

Teddy Higuera was arguablly the best Brewer pitcher from 1966-2000.

You are comparing apples with oranges. Teddy was not even as good as Ron Guidry(Louisiana Lighting).

**Bothrops Atrox** · 03-21-2006, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by NOMAR22

Compare Guidry's number with Pennock

Pennock won 240-162 in 22 years,only SO 1,227, allowed 3,900 hits in 3,572 IP,only 35 sho,ERA 3.62 career,won only 20 games 2 times,had 5 losing seasons, best year was 21-9 2.83 era ,101 SO,4 sho,302 hits in 286 ip,i made my case for RON GUIDRY.

Billy Pierce had Guidry numbers but was not as good. Tommy John was not as good as Ron Guidry,T. John has better numbers because he pitched 25 years.Kaat belongs in the HOF so does Tommy john i saw both pitch.

I don't think Mussina nor K.Brown were as good as Ron Guidry in there prime. I saw Guidry pitch in his prime,he was the top 3 pitchers in the league .
Schilling is KO pitcher. But i think hes over rated.

First of all, I agree that Guidry is better than Pennock as I said in my first post, but neither deserve election.

If Pierce had Guidry numbers, why would you say he wasn't as good?

I am a longevity person, so I fully believe good for a very long time (John, Kaat) is more valuable than great for a couple of years, good for a few more, a few mediocre seasons, then retirement (Guidry) Again, I wouldn't put John or Kaat in Cooperstwon either. Just before Guidry.

I agree that Schilling is overrated, but Mussina, Brown, and Schilling all pitched in a tremendous offesnive era, while Guidry pitched in a pitchers era. Guidry also had the luxury of great offensive and defenive support most of the other pitchers I mentioed did not have. For the record, I wouldn't put those three guys in Cooperstown either. Just before Gyuidry.

I have always said if you take the best season of a players carer out of the mix, (eliminating outliers and skewing data) and if they are not clearly a Hall of Famer, than they are boarderine at best. If you took out '78, Guidry is nowhere close to Cooperstown.

With about 10 Negro Legue pitchers, and about 10 19th century pitchers included, I have Guidry ranked about #92 all-time. Great? Yes. HOF? No.

I would agree that Guidry is underrated by the general public, however.

**Bothrops Atrox** · 03-21-2006, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by NOMAR22

Did you ever see him pitch? If not your vote should not really count.

I never saw Glen Blummer play, but I know he doesn't deserve Cooperstown.

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