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Is Ron Guidry a HOF ?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by dgarza
    I say he is, just barely, but I have no hopes of him coming close to making it.
    I would agree with both sentiments.
    1968 and 1984, the greatest ever.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by NOMAR22
      It isn't Ron Guidry fault that he was a great pitcher
      which he may or may not have been

      <a pitched for the best team ever.>

      Which he definitely did NOT do

      <He clearly was better than Billy Pierce.>

      Which he clearly is NOT

      <You guys just brings up stats that HOF voters don't give much weight to it.>

      Yeah, we want to actually be FAIR

      <It's insanity to compare him to Jim Rice who clearly belongs in the HOF.>

      Guess it's time to stop talking with you, you have no idea how to use indexed stats and I'm not sure you want to
      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
      Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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      • #33
        For my money, Pierce and Guidry deserve it about equally, Pierce an unnoticeable step ahead maybe.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by NOMAR22
          You are comparing apples with oranges. Teddy was not even as good as Ron Guidry(Louisiana Lighting).
          But you are arguing that being the best pitcher on a team from 1966-2000 should count for something. And Teddy Higuera was arguablly the best Brewer pitcher from 1966-2000.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by NOMAR22
            Did you ever see him pitch? If not your vote should not really count.
            This is a strong candidate for the Moronic Statement Hall of Fame!
            "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
            "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
            "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
            "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Chancellor
              This is a strong candidate for the Moronic Statement Hall of Fame!
              Well, 1988 was oh so long ago. I'm lucky if I remember two hours ago.
              Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
              Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
              Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
              Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
              Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
                Well, 1988 was oh so long ago. I'm lucky if I remember two hours ago.
                Try some Ginko Biloba. It is suppose to help with, um . . . what was I saying?
                1968 and 1984, the greatest ever.

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                • #38
                  I think we found somebody else who would support Dave Mcnally.

                  Guidry was a tremendous pitcher for a while, but if you are going to get in with 2400 IP, you're going to need Koufax or Pedro numbers over such a low career workload.
                  THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

                  In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by NOMAR22
                    It isn't Ron Guidry fault that he was a great pitcher a pitched for the best team ever. He clearly was better than Billy Pierce. You guys just brings up stats that HOF voters don't give much weight to it.

                    .
                    Evidently the HOF voters didn't put much weight behind the stats Guidry put up.
                    Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                    Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                    Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                    Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by digglahhh
                      I think we found somebody else who would support Dave Mcnally.
                      Guidry's ERA+ is higher than 106
                      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                      Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by RuthMayBond
                        Guidry's ERA+ is higher than 106
                        his W/L % is higher, too
                        K/IP ratio is higher
                        probably etc as well

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by NOMAR22
                          It isn't Ron Guidry fault that he was a great pitcher a pitched for the best team ever. He clearly was better than Billy Pierce. You guys just brings up stats that HOF voters don't give much weight to it.
                          Even if HOF voters don't take into account run support pitchers received, they should. Pierce's mediocre won-lost record in entirely a function of his lack of support, while Guidry's outstanding won-lost record is entirely a function of his favorable support. Give them the same support, they're probably have about the same won-lost record. They did have about the same effectiveness while they were pitching.

                          But, Pierce pitched about 1000 more innings, which is a huge difference. That's what makes him better than Guidry.

                          No way does Jimmy Wynn belong in the HOF. It's insanity to compare him to Jim Rice who clearly belongs in the HOF.Let me say i am a die hard Yankee fan.

                          Jimmy Wynn had a carrer average of just.254 never even got 2,000 hits, he walked alot but had a horrifying Average.
                          I'll spare you all the Jimmy Wynn stuff. If you want to see what I have to say about him, check the threads "Wynn in the Hall?" or "Griffey Jr. vs. Wynn".

                          Also, you still haven't told me why exactly you think Win Shares are a bad stat?

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                          • #43
                            Toy cannon, win shares are meaningless. What counts is the stats, what your team did, did the player improve a team, If we are going to put somebody in the HOF based on win shares then the player must not have had good overal stats to make it.HOF voters do not take into account win shares. To me thats a worthless stat.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by dgarza
                              But you are arguing that being the best pitcher on a team from 1966-2000 should count for something. And Teddy Higuera was arguablly the best Brewer pitcher from 1966-2000.

                              The Milwaukee brewers are not known as the best team in Baseball. The new York Yankees are. When you pitch for a historic franchise ,then your stats mean alot more if you pitched for a little known teams like the Brewers,
                              Mariners,Rockies,Astros,etc.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by NOMAR22
                                The Milwaukee brewers are not known as the best team in Baseball. The new York Yankees are. When you pitch for a historic franchise ,then your stats mean alot more if you pitched for a little known teams like the Brewers,
                                Mariners,Rockies,Astros,etc.
                                It does not matter if you play for a more historiclly rich team. The stats are all the same. You play all the same opponets, you hit the same, and pitch the same. Saying that pitching for a cerain team increases HOF value is biased. You have to look at the player and their situation not the team they played for.
                                go sox.

                                Pigskin-Fever

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