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Is Ron Guidry a HOF ?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by NOMAR22
    How many league tiitles did Mike Schmidt win? Compare it to Reggie Jackson he won 6, and 5 World series tiitles. Reggie Jackson was a winner you can't really say that about Mike Schmidt only 1 world series title and that was against the KC Royals! ha!
    Well, Schmidt never led his team to a 10th place finish like Reggie did.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by RedSoxVT92
      The Kansas City Royals were a power house in the 1970's and 80's. You cant say that beating the Royals were an easy to beat team just because they have stuggled in the 90's and 2000's. They had a beater record than the Phillies in 1980. Also Reggie Jackson was not the only one behind that team pushing them (although he was a big factor) A team wins not just a single person.

      The Royals were not a power house in the 1970's ,they were better in the 1980's but i wouldn't consider them power houses. DOES MR. OCTOBER RING A BELL? Enough said.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by 538280
        Why didn't it impress you? Once again, you show no understanding of Win Shares, or what they reall are. What exactly about Win Shares makes them meaningless to you? You still are yet to explain that to us.

        Can you tell me how many Baseball contracts are awarded based on "Win shares"? Until "Win Shares " are the main reason a baseball player gets his pay check, is when i will give that meaningless stat a look.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by dgarza
          Well, Schmidt never led his team to a 10th place finish like Reggie did.

          Ok, but lets be realistic. REGGIE JACKSON IS MR. OCTOBER, what is Mike Schmidt's nickname?

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          • #80
            Originally posted by NOMAR22
            Ok, but lets be realistic.
            OK, someone make the 1st move please...

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            • #81
              Originally posted by dgarza
              OK, someone make the 1st move please...
              Honestly, somebody please say something.
              "Simply put, the passion, interest and tradition surrounding baseball in New York is unmatched."

              Sean McAdam, ESPN.com

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              • #82
                All right, I love Reggie Jackson. He's my favorite player. He's a great player. But he's not great because he's Mr. October.

                Just like Win Shares aren't meaningless because they're not a main thing used in salary arbitration.

                Comment


                • #83
                  As with about half of the threads that go on this board, there are really two issues being discussed here: the hall worthniness of Guidry and the value of win shares
                  I don't think we will ever tire of debating the latter.

                  As for Guidry, I wouldn't have been upset if the hall voters had given him some more credit than they did. To do so would fly in the face of what they typically look for though. I wouldn't mind seeing him get elected in the veterans committee, but that will never happen.

                  As for win shares, I think that I would actually rather have all the data that make up win shares than the composite score itself. Certainly the stats that make up the number of win shares a player has will help determine his worth, but you lose so much information with any aggregate. You know the funniest thing about win shares to me is that each one is actually only 1/3 of a win. So 30 win shares is actually only 10 wins. James multiplied the number by 3 to make the differences between players larger. If that's not fuzzy math, I don't know what is.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Pine Tar
                    As for win shares, I think that I would actually rather have all the data that make up win shares than the composite score itself. Certainly the stats that make up the number of win shares a player has will help determine his worth, but you lose so much information with any aggregate. You know the funniest thing about win shares to me is that each one is actually only 1/3 of a win. So 30 win shares is actually only 10 wins. James multiplied the number by 3 to make the differences between players larger. If that's not fuzzy math, I don't know what is.
                    All right, you don't care for Win Shares because you don't really like the system, and feels it's not calculated in the best possible way. I disagree with you, but that's okay. You have a legitimate gripe. He doesn't make each win count for three WS to make the difference between players larger, he does it for another reason that I'll try to come back an tell you when I have the book in front of me.

                    But, you at least have a real reason, and you seem to understand what Win Shares are. This other guy doesn't have either, he's just continually saying Win Shares are meaningless, win shares are meaningless!

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by dgarza
                      But you are arguing that being the best pitcher on a team from 1966-2000 should count for something. And Teddy Higuera was arguablly the best Brewer pitcher from 1966-2000.

                      The Milwaukee brewers are not known as the best team in Baseball. The new York Yankees are. When you pitch for a historic franchise ,then your stats mean alot more if you pitched for a little known teams like the Brewers,
                      Mariners,Rockies,Astros,etc.
                      I'd just like to correct both of you. Higuera was the best Brewers pitcher from 1969/1970-2000, and I beg to differ that the Astros are a little known team after you know, appearing in the World Series. And those Mariners, having 2-3 of the top 10 players of the 90's on their team, I'm pretty sure most people know who they are.
                      AL East Champions: 1981 1982
                      AL Pennant: 1982
                      NL Central Champions: 2011
                      NL Wild Card: 2008

                      "It was like coming this close to your dreams and then watching them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. At the time you don't think much of it; you know, we just don't recognize the significant moments of our lives while they're happening. Back then I thought, 'Well, there'll be other days.' I didn't realize that that was the only day." - Moonlight Graham

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Dudecar00
                        I'd just like to correct both of you. Higuera was the best Brewers pitcher from 1969/1970-2000,
                        So are you suggesting that there was a better Brewers pitcher from 1966-1968 than what Higuera was? I'd REALLY like to know who that was...

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by dgarza
                          So are you suggesting that there was a better Brewers pitcher from 1966-1968 than what Higuera was? I'd REALLY like to know who that was...
                          There was no Major League Brewers team in 1966-68. The franchise didn't start until 1969, in Seattle.
                          Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                          Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                          Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                          Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                          Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
                            There was no Major League Brewers team in 1966-68. The franchise didn't start until 1969, in Seattle.
                            Which makes the 1966-2000 statement true. There was no better Brewer pitcher in than Teddy in 1966 because there were no Brewer pitchers in 1966.
                            It also makes the statement true if it read "1642-2000."

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by dgarza
                              Which makes the 1966-2000 statement true. There was no better Brewer pitcher in than Teddy in 1966 because there were no Brewer pitchers in 1966.
                              It also makes the statement true if it read "1642-2000."
                              So it is easier to say Teddy Higuera was the best Brewers pitcher of all time?
                              Has anyone surpassed him in the past 5 years?
                              Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                              Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                              Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                              Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                              Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
                                So it is easier to say Teddy Higuera was the best Brewers pitcher of all time?
                                Has anyone surpassed him in the past 5 years?
                                I was using the exact criteria NOMAR22 was using (1966-2000, not all-time), so I didn't check past 2000. I don't think there is anyone. And I was just looking at starters. Dan Plesac could be the only other pitcher (during his Brewer years) that could match Higuera.

                                Comment

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