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  • Will Make HOF vs. Should Make HOF

    It will be interesting to see if the people we think will make Cooperstown are the same as the people we think should make Cooperstown. How about the current players in the poll?

    I excluded "shoo-ins" as far as the general public is concerned (A. Rodriguez, Griffey, Maddux, Johnson, Clemens, Pedro, Piazza, I. Rodriguez)

    I also exluded those under steroid suspicion (Bonds, Sosa, Palmeiro, Sheffield)

    I also exluded those with fewer than 10 year experience as of the completion of the 2005 season (Ichiro, Pujols, Santana, Helton, etc.)

    I also excluded guys like Rolen, Delgado, Edmonds, etc. in which it is pretty clear they are short at this point in time.
    660
    Curt Schiling will make it
    1.97%
    13
    Curt Schiling should make it
    1.36%
    9
    Mariano Rivera will make it
    6.06%
    40
    Mariano Rivera should make it
    3.48%
    23
    Tom Glavine will make it
    5.30%
    35
    Tom Glavine should make it
    3.64%
    24
    Mike Mussina will make it
    0.00%
    0
    Mike Mussina should make it
    0.30%
    2
    John Smoltz will make it
    2.42%
    16
    John Smoltz should make it
    3.03%
    20
    Trevor Hoffman will make it
    2.27%
    15
    Trevor Hoffam should make it
    2.27%
    15
    Jeff Bagwell will make it
    5.00%
    33
    Jeff Bagwell should make it
    4.39%
    29
    Craig Biggio will make it
    3.79%
    25
    Craig Biggio should make it
    4.24%
    28
    Frank Thomas will make it
    5.30%
    35
    Frank Thomas should make it
    3.94%
    26
    Jeff Kent will make it
    1.82%
    12
    Jeff Kent should make it
    2.42%
    16
    Chipper Jones will make it
    2.12%
    14
    Chipper Jones should make it
    3.18%
    21
    Manny Ramirez will make it
    5.91%
    39
    Manny Ramirez should make it
    3.48%
    23
    Derek Jeter will make it
    5.61%
    37
    Derek Jeter should make it
    3.03%
    20
    Vlad Guerrero will make it
    4.39%
    29
    Vlad Guerrero should make it
    3.18%
    21
    Jim Thome will make it
    1.67%
    11
    Jim Thome should make it
    1.21%
    8
    Bernie Williams will make it
    0.15%
    1
    Bernie Williams should make it
    1.06%
    7
    Omar Vizquel will make it
    0.61%
    4
    Omar Vizquel should make it
    1.06%
    7
    All will and should make it
    0.30%
    2
    None will and should make it
    0.00%
    0
    Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 03-22-2006, 02:19 PM.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  • #2
    We already have some "Shoulds" on the ballot. I strongly support Gossage, Blyleven, and Trammell, but guys like Belle, Dawson, Murphy, Rice, and Morris also have ardent supporters that they should be in. There are also a number of candidates that have been dropped off the ballot in recent years that have decent arguments for "Should" be in. I'm thinking Ted Simmons, Bobby Grich, Lou Whitaker, Keith Hernandez, Will Clark, even Willie Randolph in some circles.

    As for recently retired players...I think Barry Larkin, Roberto Alomar, and Tim Raines all should make it, but I think all will encounter at least some resistance, and at best, I don't think any of them will have an easier time than Ryne Sandberg had. Fred McGriff is another who's probably a borderline candidate.

    Current players are a little more difficult to assess because they are still works in progress. Biggio's status will hinge on whether he gets to 3,000 hits (and the chances are very good). If he makes it, he's a shoe-in, if not, he probably falls back with Larkin and Alomar and might have to wait a few years. I think Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell will both have more trouble getting in than they deserve. Both should be first balloters, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took a couple of elections for them to get in. Tom Glavine is probably in the should category. I'm sure I'm missing lots of guys, but I feel like ending my post.

    Comment


    • #3
      I voted, but you never know for sure how these will turn out.
      Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm calling out two people right now:

        KCGHOST, RedSoxVT92

        Both of you voted that Bagwell and Thomas will make it, but didn't vote that they should make it, which I assume means you think they aren't deserving of the Hall of Fame. I would like you both to explain that.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DoubleX
          We already have some "Shoulds" on the ballot. I strongly support Gossage, Blyleven, and Trammell, but guys like Belle, Dawson, Murphy, Rice, and Morris also have ardent supporters that they should be in. There are also a number of candidates that have been dropped off the ballot in recent years that have decent arguments for "Should" be in. I'm thinking Ted Simmons, Bobby Grich, Lou Whitaker, Keith Hernandez, Will Clark, even Willie Randolph in some circles.
          Ted Simmons should make ,he has way better numbers than alot of HOF catchers. I can't see Bobby Grich making it, he didn't even get 2,000 hits. I think Lou Whitaker should make it.I don't see will clark making it. Keith Hernandez not really i would put Steve Garvey ahead of him.

          The reason Trammell has a better chance than Lou Whitaker is because Alan is white and Whitaker is black.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey, at least Todd Helton is not on the list! There is some justice in this world.
            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

            Comment


            • #7
              Cursed me for not reading the whole post before reading.

              All the guys I put that "will" also should. And I forgot to fill in Biggio. Sorry!

              Comment


              • #8
                What I would like to know is why Manny Ramirez shouldn't make it? Is it because so posters think he took steroids? The guy has a .314/.409/.599 line with 435 hr's in his career I'd like to know the number of guys who have all of those stats combined who aren't in the Hall of fame. It can't be the fielding can it?

                Comment


                • #9
                  After the first 12 voters, I am suprised at how low everybody is getting across the board. Only half feel Jeff Bagwell is deserving? 42% for Rivera? 50% for Ramirez? 50% for Biggio? More voted for Kent than Rivera??? Explanations are welcomed and encouraged. I assume the odd results are due to a small sample size.
                  Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 03-22-2006, 05:41 PM.
                  1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                  1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                  1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                  The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                  The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ex-Expo fan
                    What I would like to know is why Manny Ramirez shouldn't make it? Is it because so posters think he took steroids? The guy has a .314/.409/.599 line with 435 hr's in his career I'd like to know the number of guys who have all of those stats combined who aren't in the Hall of fame. It can't be the fielding can it?
                    I would give you a controversial answer. I believe it's because Manny Ramirez is Latino. Im sure more posters actually believe Craig Biggio is more deserving to be in the HOF than Manny Ramirez. Im sure if Manny Ramirez was white he would get more respect, sad but its the truth!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NOMAR22
                      I would give you a controversial answer. I believe it's because Manny Ramirez is Latino. Im sure more posters actually believe Craig Biggio is more deserving to be in the HOF than Manny Ramirez. Im sure if Manny Ramirez was white he would get more respect, sad but its the truth!
                      Which is why Ramirez is currently outpolling the following:

                      Hoffman
                      Schilling
                      Mussina
                      Smoltz
                      Bagwell (the two are equal)
                      Biggio
                      Kent
                      Jones
                      Thome

                      In fact the only white person Ramirez is trailing is Tom Glavine. The other person on top of the polls is Frank Thomas.

                      I don't see any evidence of race bias so far. There are not many rasist members here, so please don't play the race card.
                      Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 03-22-2006, 08:24 PM.
                      1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                      1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                      1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                      The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                      The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I voted for manny on will make it to hof but forgot to vote for should make it. Manny does not have any steroid suspision, has a .314 average with 435 homers. and this in 13 seasons. He is on pace to hit over 500 homers. So I couldnt see a plausable case against manny except for poor fielding skills. But his offense makes up for it and some.
                        go sox.

                        Pigskin-Fever

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Considering somebody (leecemark) just put Smoltz as the only player who "should" be elected, along with the other people who already admitted they made mistakes, I would say this poll and its results are completely inacurrate and don't tell us too much about how we are really thinking. Forgive me if I created a confusing poll. Maybe somebody would be interseting in a similar poll that is easier to read.
                          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The borderline guys I voted for in my mind were Kent and Jones. Mussina, Schilling, and Smoltz probably won't make it, although they'll get some consideration.

                            I voted that Jeter would make it but doesn't deserve it because I'm a Red Sox fan...I try to be objective, but sometimes it doesn't work. I feel I deserve a muligan on that one.
                            Visit my card site at Mike D's Baseball Card Page.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I can't believe so little for Schilling

                              bloody sock, D-backs and Red Sox to a WS win

                              and good stats to boot in those years

                              That is a Hall of 'FAME' career

                              Sometimes its right time right place

                              Comment

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