Will Make HOF vs. Should Make HOF

[Bothrops Atrox]

It will be interesting to see if the people we think will make Cooperstown are the same as the people we think should make Cooperstown. How about the current players in the poll?

I excluded "shoo-ins" as far as the general public is concerned (A. Rodriguez, Griffey, Maddux, Johnson, Clemens, Pedro, Piazza, I. Rodriguez)

I also exluded those under steroid suspicion (Bonds, Sosa, Palmeiro, Sheffield)

I also exluded those with fewer than 10 year experience as of the completion of the 2005 season (Ichiro, Pujols, Santana, Helton, etc.)

I also excluded guys like Rolen, Delgado, Edmonds, etc. in which it is pretty clear they are short at this point in time.

[DoubleX]

We already have some "Shoulds" on the ballot. I strongly support Gossage, Blyleven, and Trammell, but guys like Belle, Dawson, Murphy, Rice, and Morris also have ardent supporters that they should be in. There are also a number of candidates that have been dropped off the ballot in recent years that have decent arguments for "Should" be in. I'm thinking Ted Simmons, Bobby Grich, Lou Whitaker, Keith Hernandez, Will Clark, even Willie Randolph in some circles.

As for recently retired players...I think Barry Larkin, Roberto Alomar, and Tim Raines all should make it, but I think all will encounter at least some resistance, and at best, I don't think any of them will have an easier time than Ryne Sandberg had. Fred McGriff is another who's probably a borderline candidate.

Current players are a little more difficult to assess because they are still works in progress. Biggio's status will hinge on whether he gets to 3,000 hits (and the chances are very good). If he makes it, he's a shoe-in, if not, he probably falls back with Larkin and Alomar and might have to wait a few years. I think Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell will both have more trouble getting in than they deserve. Both should be first balloters, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took a couple of elections for them to get in. Tom Glavine is probably in the should category. I'm sure I'm missing lots of guys, but I feel like ending my post.

[KCGHOST]

I voted, but you never know for sure how these will turn out.

[538280]

I'm calling out two people right now:

KCGHOST, RedSoxVT92

Both of you voted that Bagwell and Thomas will make it, but didn't vote that they should make it, which I assume means you think they aren't deserving of the Hall of Fame. I would like you both to explain that.

[NOMAR22]

We already have some "Shoulds" on the ballot. I strongly support Gossage, Blyleven, and Trammell, but guys like Belle, Dawson, Murphy, Rice, and Morris also have ardent supporters that they should be in. There are also a number of candidates that have been dropped off the ballot in recent years that have decent arguments for "Should" be in. I'm thinking Ted Simmons, Bobby Grich, Lou Whitaker, Keith Hernandez, Will Clark, even Willie Randolph in some circles.

Ted Simmons should make ,he has way better numbers than alot of HOF catchers. I can't see Bobby Grich making it, he didn't even get 2,000 hits. I think Lou Whitaker should make it.I don't see will clark making it. Keith Hernandez not really i would put Steve Garvey ahead of him.

The reason Trammell has a better chance than Lou Whitaker is because Alan is white and Whitaker is black.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Hey, at least Todd Helton is not on the list! There is some justice in this world.

[Naliamegod]

Cursed me for not reading the whole post before reading.

All the guys I put that "will" also should. And I forgot to fill in Biggio. Sorry!

[Ex-Expo fan]

What I would like to know is why Manny Ramirez shouldn't make it? Is it because so posters think he took steroids? The guy has a .314/.409/.599 line with 435 hr's in his career I'd like to know the number of guys who have all of those stats combined who aren't in the Hall of fame. It can't be the fielding can it?

[Bothrops Atrox]

After the first 12 voters, I am suprised at how low everybody is getting across the board. Only half feel Jeff Bagwell is deserving? 42% for Rivera? 50% for Ramirez? 50% for Biggio? More voted for Kent than Rivera??? Explanations are welcomed and encouraged. I assume the odd results are due to a small sample size.

[NOMAR22]

What I would like to know is why Manny Ramirez shouldn't make it? Is it because so posters think he took steroids? The guy has a .314/.409/.599 line with 435 hr's in his career I'd like to know the number of guys who have all of those stats combined who aren't in the Hall of fame. It can't be the fielding can it?

I would give you a controversial answer. I believe it's because Manny Ramirez is Latino. Im sure more posters actually believe Craig Biggio is more deserving to be in the HOF than Manny Ramirez. Im sure if Manny Ramirez was white he would get more respect, sad but its the truth!

[Bothrops Atrox]

I would give you a controversial answer. I believe it's because Manny Ramirez is Latino. Im sure more posters actually believe Craig Biggio is more deserving to be in the HOF than Manny Ramirez. Im sure if Manny Ramirez was white he would get more respect, sad but its the truth!

Which is why Ramirez is currently outpolling the following:

Hoffman
Schilling
Mussina
Smoltz
Bagwell (the two are equal)
Biggio
Kent
Jones
Thome

In fact the only white person Ramirez is trailing is Tom Glavine. The other person on top of the polls is Frank Thomas.

I don't see any evidence of race bias so far. There are not many rasist members here, so please don't play the race card.

[RedSoxVT92]

I voted for manny on will make it to hof but forgot to vote for should make it. Manny does not have any steroid suspision, has a .314 average with 435 homers. and this in 13 seasons. He is on pace to hit over 500 homers. So I couldnt see a plausable case against manny except for poor fielding skills. But his offense makes up for it and some.

[Bothrops Atrox]

Considering somebody (leecemark) just put Smoltz as the only player who "should" be elected, along with the other people who already admitted they made mistakes, I would say this poll and its results are completely inacurrate and don't tell us too much about how we are really thinking. Forgive me if I created a confusing poll. Maybe somebody would be interseting in a similar poll that is easier to read.

[Mike D.]

The borderline guys I voted for in my mind were Kent and Jones. Mussina, Schilling, and Smoltz probably won't make it, although they'll get some consideration.

I voted that Jeter would make it but doesn't deserve it because I'm a Red Sox fan...I try to be objective, but sometimes it doesn't work. I feel I deserve a muligan on that one.

[Imapotato]

I can't believe so little for Schilling

bloody sock, D-backs and Red Sox to a WS win

and good stats to boot in those years

That is a Hall of 'FAME' career

Sometimes its right time right place