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Smokey Joe Wood - HOF?

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  • #16
    Yes, it's the innings not games pitched that matters

    Deadball pitchers were spent by 33 for the most part

    W/O his disease Addie Joss might have had only 4 years left anyway.

    Ed Walsh Sr...is #1 in career ERA, but is never mentioned in the same breath as Matty, Johnson, Young and Joss, because Ed pitched alot less innings...except for his one fantastic year.

    And ONE fantastic year is usually what the very good pitchers like Waddell, Rucker, Russ Ford, Donovan, McGinnity, Chesbro, Pfiester had before their poor arm fell off

    Smoky Joe had a VERY smart manager in Carrigan who caught him as well...and knew that as hard as Wood threw, and with the lack of control....he needed to limit his outings. Which he did...and why Wood was succesful for a broef period of time.

    But Wood is no HOFer...but he is a great story in baseball history

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Imapotato
      Ed Walsh Sr...is #1 in career ERA, but is never mentioned in the same breath as Matty, Johnson, Young and Joss, because Ed pitched alot less innings...except for his one fantastic year.
      Um... This isn't true at all. Walsh led the American League in IP 4 times, and was second another time. In 1908, he pitched 140 more innings than Joss, who was second in the league. In 1907, he had 70 more innings than second placer George Mullin.

      For his career, Walsh had about 600 more IP than Joss, in 55 more starts.

      As to Joss only having three more years left in him... it's possible. But Joss was an absolute monster from his rookie year straight through to age 29... at age 30 he got really, really sick, and wasn't effective. He died soon after.

      But Christy Mathewson had his last truly effective season at age 32... only 3 years older than Joss when Joss had his last great season. So maybe Joss only had 3 or 4 more great years left in him. Then he'd be Christy Mathewson. Is that such a bad thing to be?
      "Simply put, the passion, interest and tradition surrounding baseball in New York is unmatched."

      Sean McAdam, ESPN.com

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      • #18
        Originally posted by ElHalo
        Um... This isn't true at all. Walsh led the American League in IP 4 times, and was second another time. In 1908, he pitched 140 more innings than Joss, who was second in the league. In 1907, he had 70 more innings than second placer George Mullin.

        For his career, Walsh had about 600 more IP than Joss, in 55 more starts.

        As to Joss only having three more years left in him... it's possible. But Joss was an absolute monster from his rookie year straight through to age 29... at age 30 he got really, really sick, and wasn't effective. He died soon after.

        But Christy Mathewson had his last truly effective season at age 32... only 3 years older than Joss when Joss had his last great season. So maybe Joss only had 3 or 4 more great years left in him. Then he'd be Christy Mathewson. Is that such a bad thing to be?
        Walsh and Joss are two of the most underrated pitchers ever!
        Red, it took me 16 years to get here. Play me, and you'll get the best I got.

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        • #19
          Since I ranted about Wood in the "underrated pitchers" thread, I thought I'd bring back this one from long ago.

          Bill - Do you have any references to Smokey Joe hidden in your Historical Articles? I'm reading those articles one day at a time. There's a LOT there.
          Last edited by torez77; 03-01-2006, 04:50 PM.
          Red, it took me 16 years to get here. Play me, and you'll get the best I got.

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          • #20
            Smokey Joe isn't within a mile of the HOF. He's maybe an okay candidate for the top 100 pitchers of all time (though he wouldn't make my list).

            Why would you put in Smokey Joe before Dwight Gooden?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by 538280
              Smokey Joe isn't within a mile of the HOF. He's maybe an okay candidate for the top 100 pitchers of all time (though he wouldn't make my list).

              Why would you put in Smokey Joe before Dwight Gooden?
              I wouldn't. As I said on the "underrated pitchers" thread, if he had a longer career (by HOF standards), he definitely would've made the HOF. It's nice to see someone mention him as a candidate for top 100 pitchers, though.
              Red, it took me 16 years to get here. Play me, and you'll get the best I got.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by torez77
                It's nice to see someone mention him as a candidate for top 100 pitchers, though.
                Bill James actually includes him in his list of top 100 pitchers. #94 I believe.

                Comment


                • #23
                  What favors Wood over Gooden in my mind is that Gooden was never close to the same pitcher he was in his first 2 seasons, and it wasn't because of a career-hindering injury. Wood pitched great despite his injury in the 3 years prior to his retirement.
                  Red, it took me 16 years to get here. Play me, and you'll get the best I got.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 538280
                    Smokey Joe isn't within a mile of the HOF. He's maybe an okay candidate for the top 100 pitchers of all time (though he wouldn't make my list).

                    That just about sums it up.
                    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by torez77
                      Since I ranted about Wood in the "underrated pitchers" thread, I thought I'd bring back this one from long ago.

                      Bill - Do you have any references to Smokey Joe hidden in your Historical Articles? I'm reading those articles one day at a time. There's a LOT there.
                      Kinda doubt it. But you never know. Those articles are so wonderful because they are chock full of random, unsolicited stuff.

                      I put Joe Wood in with Herb Score. If not for a single season, he wouldn't register on the radar. At least not OUR radar for greatness. That is not to say he wasn't murder on the batter's of his day.

                      But baseball history is littered with pitchers who sparkled for a while. Ewell Blackwell, JR Richards, Rex Barney, Bob Turley, Dick Radatz, Jim Maloney, Bob Veale, Bobby Shantz, Sam McDowell, etc. Koufax could have been one of them if he hadn't found his control.

                      Those guys never closed in on being great short career guys, like Dean, Joss, Waddell, Vance, Walsh.

                      Bill

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by 538280
                        Bill James actually includes him in his list of top 100 pitchers. #94 I believe.
                        Yeah, I've seen Wood get his props from sources other than BBF. I'm saying he's been underrated here at BBF. I'm the only one who's brought up his name, and it's not just to mention 1912.
                        Red, it took me 16 years to get here. Play me, and you'll get the best I got.

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                        • #27
                          Smokey Joe was a great pitcher. His 1912 season was astonishing. he had a career era of 2.03 and Walter Johnson once said "Can I throw harder than Joe Wood? Listen, my friend, there's no man alive can throw harder than Smokey Joe Wood" Then Smokey got hurt in the spring of 1913 and that hurt the rest of his career. But inspite of the pain he still was one of the best pitchers in 1914 and 1915 going 25 and 8 with an 1.96 era in those two years. Then he made a pretty good transition to OF but never was the same player. Smokey Joe was a great pitcher, one of the all time Red Sox greats. If I had a vote I would vote for him. I think he deserves to get in the HOF but the chances of that ever happening is very slim. But he will still live in baseball history, and is a baseball legend.
                          go sox.

                          Pigskin-Fever

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                          • #28
                            He is probably the most famous, and for that matter best, pitcher NOT in the HOF.
                            Red, it took me 16 years to get here. Play me, and you'll get the best I got.

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                            • #29
                              Joe Wood was a great pitcher, but for only a moment in time. Not long enough to post authentic Hall credentials. He is joined by Herb Score and Ewell Blackwell in his unrealized potential. And around 100 others. Dizzy Dean just barely scrapes in himself.

                              Great potential and greatness are not the same thing.

                              Bill Burgess

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by torez77
                                He is probably the most famous, and for that matter best, pitcher NOT in the HOF.
                                Maybe, only if you're counting peak. His career was no Blyleven. Why isn't this in the Hall of Fame forum?
                                Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                                Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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