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  • Dean Chance

    I just wanted to see what people thought of Dean Chance. How good was he? And is he even close to derserving enshrinement?

  • #2
    Chance has almost indentical credentials to Ron Guidry. A good pitcher for a short time, very low career IP, and one tremendous year. Neither is even close to HOF quality.

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    • #3
      Really not quie as good as Guidry. Closer example might be Andy Messersmith.
      Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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      • #4
        Originally posted by KCGHOST View Post
        Really not quie as good as Guidry. Closer example might be Andy Messersmith.
        Messersmith and Jim Maloney are good examples of comparable pitchers. Chance, though, was better than both of them at his best. Chance won the Cy Young Award in 1964, and deserved it. Chance arguably deserved the AL Cy Young Award in 1967; indeed, Chance may well have been the best pitcher in the majors in 1967 as well.

        All three guys were on HOF paths when they got hurt with injuries that ruined their careers. Chance's career is above Messersmith's and Maloney's, but below Bret Saberhagen's and Frank Viola's, as well as below Guidry's. All of them were on HOF paces. The difference is that Viola, Guidry, and even Saberhagen were able to last longer. (Had Saberhagen been healthy, he would have challenged Clemens and Maddux for being the best starter in baseball, but he wasn't healthy, so . . .)
        "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

        NL President Ford Frick, 1947

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        • #5
          No, not even close.

          Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear View Post
          Messersmith and Jim Maloney are good examples of comparable pitchers. Chance, though, was better than both of them at his best. Chance won the Cy Young Award in 1964, and deserved it. Chance arguably deserved the AL Cy Young Award in 1967; indeed, Chance may well have been the best pitcher in the majors in 1967 as well.

          All three guys were on HOF paths when they got hurt with injuries that ruined their careers. . .
          Maloney was never a workhorse as Chance was, maybe never on HOF path(?). But he had more stuff. See the three no-hitters and the strikeout rate (walk rate too) more like Nolan Ryan and Sam McDowell than Chance and Messersmith.

          Strikeouts are popular.
          Maybe McDowell was on the highest path but the record can't be good for pitchers approaching 2000 innings at age 27 (McDowell and Chance).
          Last edited by Paul Wendt; 02-10-2008, 12:55 PM. Reason: answer original question

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Paul Wendt View Post
            No, not even close.



            Maloney was never a workhorse as Chance was, maybe never on HOF path(?). But he had more stuff. See the three no-hitters and the strikeout rate (walk rate too) more like Nolan Ryan and Sam McDowell than Chance and Messersmith.

            Strikeouts are popular.
            Maybe McDowell was on the highest path but the record can't be good for pitchers approaching 2000 innings at age 27 (McDowell and Chance).
            Chance did, however, pitch in an incredibly super era for pitchers, so his 2,000 innings probably involved significantly fewer pitches thrown than would be thrown by a pitcher (especially in the AL, with the DH rule) in 2,000 innings in this day and age.
            "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

            NL President Ford Frick, 1947

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            • #7
              Most 1-0 wins, career:

              1. Walter Johnson 38
              2. Pete Alexander 17
              t3. Greg Maddux 16
              t3. Dean Chance 16

              Chance's W/L record in 1-0 games was 16-5 (.762)

              The other pitchers on this list:

              Johnson: 38-24 (.613)
              Alexander: 17-9 (.654)
              Maddux: 16-3 (.842) !!!
              My top 10 players:

              1. Babe Ruth
              2. Barry Bonds
              3. Ty Cobb
              4. Ted Williams
              5. Willie Mays
              6. Alex Rodriguez
              7. Hank Aaron
              8. Honus Wagner
              9. Lou Gehrig
              10. Mickey Mantle

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              • #8
                Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                Most 1-0 wins, career:

                1. Walter Johnson 38
                2. Pete Alexander 17
                t3. Greg Maddux 16
                t3. Dean Chance 16

                Chance's W/L record in 1-0 games was 16-5 (.762)

                The other pitchers on this list:

                Johnson: 38-24 (.613)
                Alexander: 17-9 (.654)
                Maddux: 16-3 (.842) !!!
                Chance played in an ERA where runs were scarce, the strike zone was bigger and pitchers threw fewer pitches in a game. It was easier for Chance to accomplish this than Maddux, and by a lot. I would say the same for Chance regarding Alexander as well.
                "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

                NL President Ford Frick, 1947

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear View Post

                  Chance played in an ERA where runs were scarce, the strike zone was bigger and pitchers threw fewer pitches in a game. It was easier for Chance to accomplish this than Maddux, and by a lot. I would say the same for Chance regarding Alexander as well.
                  Valid points but still pretty shocking to see Chance tied for 3rd all-time when he only pitched until age-30.
                  My top 10 players:

                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Barry Bonds
                  3. Ty Cobb
                  4. Ted Williams
                  5. Willie Mays
                  6. Alex Rodriguez
                  7. Hank Aaron
                  8. Honus Wagner
                  9. Lou Gehrig
                  10. Mickey Mantle

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    To answer the OP:

                    Other than one big season, I don't see any particularly good reason to put him in the Hall, or even give him a courtesy vote.
                    "The first draft of anything is crap." - Ernest Hemingway

                    There's no such thing as an ultimate stat.

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