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  • Baseball Fever Hall of Fame

    Welcome to the Baseball Fever Hall of Fame!

    The Official Hall of Fame of Baseball Fever



    Since 2003, the denizens of Baseball Fever have gathered regularly to celebrate the best of baseball history by enshrining the game's greatest players and other individuals who contributed mightily to the success of their teams and the game.

    This is the primary discussion thread for the granddaddy of all Hall of Fame projects.




    Please direct all inquiries to the Project Manager, Brad Harris, in this thread or through private message. Enjoy!
    Last edited by Chadwick; 06-21-2013, 01:47 PM.
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

  • #2
    BBFHoF Rules & Guidelines

    Introduction
    The Baseball Fever Hall of Fame (BBFHoF) was established in 2003 to honor the greatest players and contributors in baseball history. This is achieved through the induction of any eligible candidates receiving at least three-fourths support in any of a series of annual elections; one for players and one for contributors each held concurrently.

    We encourage any member of Baseball Fever in good standing to participate at whatever level you are comfortable, contributing to our dialogue or casting a ballot in either, or both, elections.

    Eligibility and Elections
    The Players Election is held to determine the most deserving candidates solely on the basis of their on-field performance as a player. Ballots must list at least 15, and no more than 25 players. Voters must select those they deem most deserving of election.

    Eligible players for the 2014 election must have died, declared their retirement, or sat out the entire 2013 regular season and either be at least 40 years of age or failed to appear on a 40-man roster in the prior season.

    The Contributors Election is held to determine the most deserving candidates primarily on the basis of their off-field contributions (though playing career may be considered). Ballots must list at least 10, and no more than 15, contributors. Voters must select those they deem most deserving of election.

    Eligible contributors for the 2014 election must be at least 60 years of age or effectively retired from the position for which they are considered (i.e. “special advisor to the GM” type jobs do not count against eligibility).

    All candidates remain perpetually eligible until elected on either ballot and those with multiple areas of achievement (both playing and non-playing records) may be appear on both ballots simultaneously, though we encourage voters to prioritize the election of deserving players as player candidates.

    Candidates from the Major Leagues, minor leagues and various Negro and international leagues (i.e. Nippon Professional Baseball) are eligible. Participation constitutes a de facto agreement to consider the relative merits of non-MLB candidates receiving significant support, irrespective of a blanket prohibition against such candidates on a personal level.

    Ballots
    Players must be ordered alphabetically. Once posted, ballots may be edited until the submission deadline, but to ensure any such changes are recorded it is advised to contact the Project Manager by private message.

    The casting of a ballot constitutes an agreement to abide by all rules herein and the Project Manager retains the right to invalidate ballots which fail to meet the guidelines, are deemed counterproductive to the project (e.g. overt vote manipulation or demonstrating an unsupportable bias or lack of general knowledge), or multiple ballots determined to have been cast by the same voter. Discrepancies or errors may be caught by the Project Manager and brought to the voter’s attention for correction prior to the final tally of ballots, but ultimately each voter is responsible for submitting a ballot in conformity with both the letter and spirit of the rules of the project.

    Any questions should be directed to the Project Manager promptly and will be responded to in turn.

    The 2014 election will begin after completion of the 2013 MLB regular season.
    Last edited by Chadwick; 06-21-2013, 01:47 PM.
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

    Comment


    • #3
      BBFHoF Membership Directory

      ALL INDUCTEES, ALPHABETICALLY - 339
      Code:
      Hank Aaron
      Doc Adams
      Pete Alexander
      Dick Allen
      Mel Allen
      Roberto Alomar
      Walter Alston
      Sparky Anderson
      Cap Anson
      Luis Aparicio
      Luke Appling
      Richie Ashburn
      Earl Averill
      Jeff Bagwell
      Frank Baker
      Ernie Banks
      Red Barber
      Sy Barger
      Ross Barnes
      Ed Barrow
      Jake Beckley
      John Beckwith
      Cool Papa Bell
      Albert Belle
      Johnny Bench
      Charlie Bennett
      Yogi Berra
      Akira Bessho
      Craig Biggio
      Bert Blyleven
      Wade Boggs
      Ed Bolden
      Barry Bonds
      Lou Boudreau
      Ken Boyer
      Roger Bresnahan
      George Brett
      Lou Brock
      Dan Brouthers
      Mordecai Brown
      Ray Brown
      Willard Brown
      Jim Bunning
      Jesse Burkett
      Roy Campanella
      Rod Carew
      Max Carey
      Steve Carlton
      Gary Carter
      Alexander Cartwright
      Bob Caruthers
      Orlando Cepeda
      Perucho Cepeda
      Henry Chadwick
      Frank Chance
      Oscar Charleston
      Cupid Childs
      Will Clark
      Fred Clarke
      John Clarkson
      Roger Clemens
      Roberto Clemente
      Ty Cobb
      Mickey Cochrane
      Eddie Collins
      Jimmy Collins
      Charlie Comiskey
      Charles Conlon
      Tom Connolly
      Roger Connor
      Wilbur Cooper
      Stan Coveleski
      Bobby Cox
      Sam Crawford
      Jim Creighton
      Joe Cronin
      Bill Dahlen
      Ray Dandridge
      George Davis
      Andre Dawson
      Dizzy Dean
      Ed Delahanty
      Bill Dickey
      Martin Dihigo
      Joe DiMaggio
      Larry Doby
      Bobby Doerr
      Larry Doyle
      Don Drysdale
      Hugh Duffy
      Jack Dunn
      Leo Durocher
      Dennis Eckersley
      Darrell Evans
      Buck Ewing
      Red Faber
      Bob Feller
      Wes Ferrell
      Rollie Fingers
      Carlton Fisk
      Elmer Flick
      Whitey Ford
      Bill Foster
      Rube Foster
      Nellie Fox
      Jimmie Foxx
      Bill Freehan
      Frankie Frisch
      Pud Galvin
      Lou Gehrig
      Charlie Gehringer
      Bob Gibson
      Josh Gibson
      Pat Gillick
      Jack Glasscock
      Tom Glavine
      Joe Gordon
      George Gore
      Goose Goslin
      Goose Gossage
      Frank Grant
      Hank Greenberg
      Bobby Grich
      Ken Griffey Jr.
      Clark Griffith
      Burleigh Grimes
      Heinie Groh
      Lefty Grove
      Vladimir Guerrero
      Tony Gwynn
      Stan Hack
      Billy Hamilton
      Ned Hanlon
      Isao Harimoto
      Gabby Hartnett
      Ernie Harwell
      Harry Heilmann
      Rickey Henderson
      Billy Herman
      Keith Hernandez
      Whitey Herzog
      Pete Hill
      Paul Hines
      Rogers Hornsby
      Carl Hubbell
      Miller Huggins
      William Hulbert
      Kazuhisa Inao
      Monte Irvin
      Joe Jackson
      Reggie Jackson
      Bill James
      Fergie Jenkins
      Hughie Jennings
      Ban Johnson
      Grant Johnson
      Randy Johnson
      Walter Johnson
      Al Kaline
      Masaichi Kaneda
      Tetsuharu Kawakami
      Tim Keefe
      Willie Keeler
      Joe Kelley
      King Kelly
      Jeff Kent
      Harmon Killebrew
      Ralph Kiner
      Bill Klem
      Sandy Koufax
      Nap Lajoie
      Kenesaw Landis
      Barry Larkin
      Tony LaRussa
      Tommy Lasorda
      Bob Lemon
      Buck Leonard
      Pop Lloyd
      Al Lopez
      Ted Lyons
      Connie Mack
      Biz Mackey
      Larry MacPhail
      Greg Maddux
      Sherry Magee
      Mickey Mantle
      Rabbit Maranville
      Juan Marichal
      Edgar Martinez
      Pedro Martinez
      Eddie Mathews
      Christy Mathewson
      Carl Mays
      Willie Mays
      Joe McCarthy
      Willie McCovey
      Joe McGinnity
      John McGraw
      Fred McGriff
      Mark McGwire
      Bill McKechnie
      Bid McPhee
      Cal McVey
      Joe Medwick
      Jose Mendez
      Marvin Miller
      Minnie Minoso
      Johnny Mize
      Paul Molitor
      Dobie Moore
      Joe Morgan
      Tony Mullane
      Dale Murphy
      Eddie Murray
      Stan Musial
      Mike Mussina
      Shigeo Nagashima
      Graig Nettles
      Hal Newhouser
      Kid Nichols
      Phil Niekro
      Katsuya Nomura
      Lefty O'Doul
      Sadaharu Oh
      Walter O'Malley
      Alejandro Oms
      Buck O'Neil
      Jim O'Rourke
      Mel Ott
      Satchel Paige
      Jim Palmer
      Dave Parker
      Dickey Pearce
      Tony Perez
      Gaylord Perry
      Mike Piazza
      Eddie Plank
      Cum Posey
      Kirby Puckett
      Dan Quisenberry
      Charley Radbourn
      Tim Raines
      Manny Ramirez
      Al Reach
      Dick Redding
      Pee Wee Reese
      Hardy Richardson
      Francis Richter
      Branch Rickey
      Cal Ripken
      Eppa Rixey
      Robin Roberts
      Brooks Robinson
      Frank Robinson
      Jackie Robinson
      Ivan Rodriguez
      Bullet Rogan
      Pete Rose
      Edd Roush
      Red Ruffing
      Jacob Ruppert
      Amos Rusie
      Babe Ruth
      Nolan Ryan
      Ryne Sandberg
      Ron Santo
      Louis Santop
      Curt Schilling
      Mike Schmidt
      Vin Scully
      Tom Seaver
      Frank Selee
      Joe Sewell
      Matsutaro Shoriki
      Al Simmons
      Ted Simmons
      George Sisler
      Enos Slaughter
      Hilton Smith
      Ozzie Smith
      John Smoltz
      Duke Snider
      Billy Southworth
      Warren Spahn
      Al Spalding
      Tris Speaker
      J.G. Taylor Spink
      Victor Starffin
      Willie Stargell
      Joe Start
      Turkey Stearnes
      Casey Stengel
      Harry Stovey
      Bruce Sutter
      Mule Suttles
      Don Sutton
      Ezra Sutton
      C.I. Taylor
      Bill Terry
      Frank Thomas
      Sam Thompson
      Joe Torre
      Cristobal Torriente
      Alan Trammell
      Pie Traynor
      Kazuto Tsuruoka
      George Van Haltren
      Dazzy Vance
      Arky Vaughan
      Bill Veeck
      Rube Waddell
      Honus Wagner
      Larry Walker
      Bobby Wallace
      Ed Walsh
      Paul Waner
      John M. Ward
      Earl Weaver
      George Weiss
      Willie Wells
      Zach Wheat
      Lou Whitaker
      Deacon White
      Hoyt Wilhelm
      J.L. Wilkinson
      Billy Williams
      Dick Williams
      Joe Williams
      Ted Williams
      Vic Willis
      Hack Wilson
      Jud Wilson
      Dave Winfield
      George Wright
      Harry Wright
      Early Wynn
      Carl Yastrzemski
      Cy Young
      Robin Yount
      PLAYERS - 272
      Code:
      PITCHERS - 78
      Grover Cleveland Alexander
      Akira Bessho
      Bert Blyleven
      Three Finger Brown
      Ray Brown
      Jim Bunning
      Steve Carlton
      Bob Caruthers
      John Clarkson
      Roger Clemens
      Wilbur Cooper
      Stan Coveleski
      Dizzy Dean
      Don Drysdale
      Dennis Eckersley
      Red Faber
      Bob Feller
      Wes Ferrell
      Rollie Fingers
      Whitey Ford
      Bill Foster
      Pud Galvin
      Bob Gibson
      Tom Glavine
      Goose Gossage
      Burleigh Grimes
      Lefty Grove
      Carl Hubbell
      Kazuhisa Inao
      Fergie Jenkins
      Randy Johnson
      Walter Johnson
      Masaichi Kaneda
      Tim Keefe
      Sandy Koufax
      Bob Lemon
      Ted Lyons
      Greg Maddux
      Juan Marichal
      Pedro Martinez
      Christy Mathewson
      Carl Mays
      Joe McGinnity
      Jose Mendez
      Tony Mullane
      Mike Mussina
      Hal Newhouser
      Kid Nichols
      Phil Niekro
      Satchel Paige
      Jim Palmer
      Gaylord Perry
      Eddie Plank
      Dan Quisenberry
      Old Hoss Radbourn
      Cannonball Dick Redding
      Eppa Rixey
      Robin Roberts
      Bullet Rogan
      Red Ruffing
      Amos Rusie
      Nolan Ryan
      Curt Schilling
      Tom Seaver
      Hilton Smith
      John Smoltz
      Warren Spahn
      Victor Starffin
      Bruce Sutter
      Don Sutton
      Dazzy Vance
      Rube Waddell
      Ed Walsh
      Hoyt Wilhelm
      Smokey Joe Williams
      Vic Willis
      Early Wynn
      Cy Young
      
      CATCHERS - 21
      Johnny Bench
      Charlie Bennett
      Yogi Berra
      Roger Bresnahan
      Roy Campanella
      Gary Carter
      Mickey Cochrane
      Bill Dickey
      Buck Ewing
      Carlton Fisk
      Bill Freehan
      Josh Gibson
      Gabby Hartnett
      Biz Mackey
      Cal McVey
      Katsuya Nomura
      Mike Piazza
      Ivan Rodriguez
      Louis Santop
      Ted Simmons
      Deacon White
      
      FIRST BASEMEN - 25
      Cap Anson
      Jeff Bagwell
      Jake Beckley
      Dan Brouthers
      Orlando Cepeda
      Will Clark
      Roger Connor
      Jimmie Foxx
      Lou Gehrig
      Hank Greenberg
      Keith Hernandez
      Harmon Killebrew
      Buck Leonard
      Willie McCovey
      Fred McGriff
      Mark McGwire
      Johnny Mize
      Eddie Murray
      Sadaharu Oh
      Tony Perez
      George Sisler
      Joe Start
      Mule Suttles
      Bill Tery
      Frank Thomas
      
      SECOND BASEMEN -24
      Roberto Alomar
      Ross Barnes
      Craig Biggio
      Rod Carew
      Cupid Childs
      Eddie Collins
      Bobby Doerr
      Larry Doyle
      Nellie Fox
      Frankie Frisch
      Charlie Gehringer
      Joe Gordon
      Frank Grant
      Bobby Grich
      Billy Herman
      Rogers Hornsby
      Jeff Kent
      Nap Lajoie
      Bid McPhee
      Joe Morgan
      Hardy Richardson
      Jackie Robinson
      Ryne Sandberg
      Lou Whitaker
      
      THIRD BASEMEN - 22
      Dick Allen
      Frank Baker
      John Beckwith
      Wade Boggs
      Ken Boyer
      George Brett
      Jimmy Collins
      Ray Dandridge
      Darrell Evans
      Heinie Groh
      Stan Hack
      Edgar Martinez
      Eddie Mathews
      Paul Molitor
      Shigeo Nagashima
      Graig Nettles
      Brooks Robinson
      Ron Santo
      Mike Schmidt
      Ezra Sutton
      Pie Traynor
      Jud Wilson
      
      SHORTSTOPS - 25
      Luis Aparicio
      Luke Appling
      Ernie Banks
      Lou Boudreau
      Perucho Cepeda
      Joe Cronin
      Bill Dahlen
      George Davis
      Jack Glasscock
      Home Run Johnson
      Barry Larkin
      Pop Lloyd
      Rabbit Maranville
      Dobie Moore
      Pee Wee Reese
      Cal Ripken
      Joe Sewell
      Ozzie Smith
      Alan Trammell
      Arky Vaughan
      Honus Wagner
      Bobby Wallace
      Willie Wells
      George Wright
      Robin Yount
      
      LEFT FIELDERS - 27
      Albert Belle
      Barry Bonds
      Lou Brock
      Jesse Burkett
      Fred Clarke
      Ed Delahanty
      Goose Goslin
      Isao Harimoto
      Rickey Henderson
      Monte Irvin
      Shoeless Joe Jackson
      Joe Kelley
      Ralph Kiner
      Sherry Magee
      Ducky Medwick
      Minnie Minoso
      Stan Musial
      Jim O'Rourke
      Tim Raines
      Manny Ramirez
      Al Simmons
      Willie Stargell
      Harry Stovey
      Zach Wheat
      Billy Williams
      Ted Williams
      Carl Yastrzemski
      
      CENTER FIELDERS - 26
      Richie Ashburn
      Earl Averill
      Cool Papa Bell
      Willard Brown
      Max Carey
      Oscar Charleston
      Ty Cobb
      Joe DiMaggio
      Larry Doby
      Hugh Duffy
      George Gore
      Ken Griffey Jr.
      Billy Hamilton
      Pete Hill
      Paul Hines
      Mickey Mantle
      Willie Mays
      Dale Murphy
      Alejandro Oms
      Kirby Puckett
      Edd Roush
      Duke Snider
      Tris Speaker
      Turkey Stearnes
      George Van Haltren
      Hack Wilson
      
      RIGHT FIELDERS - 24
      Hank Aaron
      Roberto Clemente
      Sam Crawford
      Andre Dawson
      Martin Dihigo
      Elmer Flick
      Vladimir Guerrero
      Tony Gwynn
      Harry Heilmann
      Reggie Jackson
      Al Kaline
      Willie Keeler
      King Kelly
      Mel Ott
      Dave Parker
      Frank Robinson
      Pete Rose
      Babe Ruth
      Enos Slaughter
      Sam Thompson
      Cristobal Torriente
      Larry Walker
      Paul Waner
      Dave Winfield
      CONTRIBUTORS - 67
      Code:
      MANAGERS - 26
      Walter Alston
      Sparky Anderson
      Frank Chance
      Bobby Cox
      Leo Durocher
      Ned Hanlon
      Whitey Herzog
      Miller Huggins
      Hughie Jennings
      Tetsuharu Kawakami
      Tony LaRussa
      Tommy Lasorda
      Al Lopez
      Connie Mack
      Joe McCarthy
      John McGraw
      Bill McKechnie
      Frank Selee
      Billy Southworth
      Casey Stengel
      C.I. Taylor
      Joe Torre
      Kazuto Tsuruoka
      Earl Weaver
      Dick Williams
      Harry Wright
      
      GENERAL MANAGERS - 5
      Ed Barrow
      Pat Gillick
      Larry MacPhail
      Branch Rickey
      George Weiss
      
      OWNERS - 10
      Ed Bolden
      Charlie Comiskey
      Jack Dunn
      Clark Griffith
      Walter O'Malley
      Cum Posey
      Jacob Ruppert
      Albert Goodwill Spalding
      Bill Veeck
      J.L. Wilkinson
      
      LEAGUE EXECUTIVES - 3
      William Hulbert
      Ban Johnson
      Kenesaw Mountain Landis
      
      PIONEERS - 14
      Doc Adams
      Sy Barger
      Alexander Cartwright
      Henry Chadwick
      Charles Conlon
      Jim Creighton
      Rube Foster
      Marvin Miller
      Lefty O'Doul
      Buck O'Neil
      Dickey Pearce
      Al Reach
      Matsutaro Shoriki
      John Montgomery Ward
      
      BROADCASTERS - 4
      Mel Allen
      Red Barber
      Ernie Harwell
      Vin Scully
      
      WRITERS - 3
      Bill James
      Francis Richter
      J.G. Taylor Spink
      
      UMPIRES - 2
      Tom Connolly
      Bill Klem
      Last edited by Chadwick; 06-18-2013, 01:16 PM.
      "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
      "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
      "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
      "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

      Comment


      • #4
        BBFHoF Previous Election Results

        2013 Election Results
        2012 Election Results
        2011 Election Results
        2010 Election Results
        2009 Election Results
        Earlier Years - Coming Soon!
        Last edited by Chadwick; 06-18-2013, 12:30 PM.
        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

        Comment


        • #5
          --I thought Tom Selleck was Mr Baseball .

          Comment


          • #6
            So that explains the "Not Valid Link" error I kept getting. I was wondering what on earth was going on! Well, OK then, a new discussion thread, and all the bitter comments and posts from the old one are banished to computer oblivion! A fresh start. Wish I could do that with my life sometimes!:o

            Anyway, congrats to the five new members! And four out of five from my ballot isn't bad. And two of four contributors. So I guess it was a good month.
            You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, I'll start by seconding the Chancellor's push for Foster, Nagashima and Wilson. In the past five elections, we've elected precisely one Negro League player, Ray Brown. I know there's a gap from the bunch we put in in May through October last year, but Foster and Wilson are now within a vote and are quite deserving at this point. I'll post individual arguments for these guys to bolster the point.

              Jim Albright
              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

              Comment


              • #8
                Jud Wilson

                He has a solid array of accolades to point to:
                1) He's been selected to the Baseball Think Factory "Hall of Merit";
                2) He finished 26th in the SABR poll which attempted to rank Negro League luminaries;
                3) he was named as both the third team first baseman and the third-team third baseman in the Pittsburgh Courier poll;
                4) he was named as a Hall of Fame caliber player by 80% ot the Negro League historians polled for Cool Papas and Double Duties; and
                5) Elected to Cooperstown in 2006.

                The data we have on Wilson against major leaguers in exhibitons shows 31 hits in 86 at bats with 3 homers, a .360 average.

                The Baseball Think Factory guys project Wilson as a career 336/431/447 hitter with 2845 career hits. That projection puts him behind only one man who has become eligible for Cooperstown who is not in: Harold Baines, with 2866 career hits. Baines was good, but not a comparable quality hitter 289/359/465 for his career, especially in terms of on-base ability. Another way of looking at it is there's only one eligible man with 2700 or more hits and a career average over .300 who isn't in Cooperstown. That one man is Al Oliver, a career 303/348/451 hitter with 2743 career hits. Oliver also loses out to the Wilson projection due to inferior OBP.

                The BTF guys peg Wilson at 378 career win shares, a best five of 140, and top three of 34, 31 and 28. As a guy who favors career value, I'd put him above the excellent Ron Santo (322; 162; and 37, 36, and 32). If you are one who values peak over career, I'd say you should put him over Brooks Robinson (355; 130; 33, 27 and 25).

                From pages 120-121 of William McNeil's Cool Papas and Double Duties:

                Wilson . . . packed a solid 185 pounds on a squat 5' 8" body. He had massive shoulders and a huge chest that tapered down to a small waist, and short, bowed legs . . .

                He led the . . . . Eastern Colored League in batting in his sophomore year, crushing the ball to the tune of .464. He followed with seasons averages of .394, .397, .358, .412, .375, .346 and .371 . . . [H]e [then] played two years with the Grays, hitting .362 and .370, before jumping to the Philadelphia Stars where he played for six years. All he hit in Philly was .354, .412, .309, .380 and .319. He added three more batting championships [in the two years he hit .412 and the one he hit .380}. . . . He also led the league in doubles, triples and home runs, once each.

                When he retired from the Negro Leagues, he left behind a .354 lifetime batting average, the highest average for any player with more than 2000 at bats . . . .

                Jud Wilson was primarily a hitter, but he could also handle himself in the field and on the bases. He had good speed and was an aggressive baserunner . . . . On defense, he played first base and third base, both acceptably. He was not flashy, and he was not graceful, but somehow he got the job done. At third base, he was noted for knocking balls down with his chest, then picking them up and throwing the runner out.

                Jud Wilson made the annual trek south in the winter to play in the Cuban Winter League. He spent six . . . winters there and almost destroyed the pitching staffs [in that league]. He raked opposing pitchers for averages of .430, .333, .424, .397 and .363 . . . . In all, Wilson won two batting championships in Cuba (the two seasons over .400] . . . . He also led the league in runs scored twice, triples once, home runs once, and stolen bases once. His career batting average in Cuba was .372, which is the highest batting average in Cuban baseball history . . . .

                He also played in the California Winter League against major league players during the winter of 1930-31 and he hit .469 in fifteen games. And he played one year in the Puerto Rican Winter League, where he hit .404 as a 45-year-old graybeard.

                Overall, Jud Wilson hit .354 in the Negro Leagues with 30 doubles, 6 triples and 13 home runs [per 550 AB]. . . In Cuba, he averaged .372 with 27 doubles, 19 triples and 13 home runs [per 550 AB].

                Jim Albright
                Last edited by jalbright; 03-26-2006, 09:52 AM.
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Willie Foster

                  His list of accolades is rather impressive:
                  1) enshrined in Cooperstown;
                  2) selected to the Baseball Think Factory "Hall of Merit";
                  3) on the first team in the Pittsburgh Courier poll; and
                  4) finished 18th in the SABR poll ranking luminaries of the Negro Leagues.

                  Bill James in his latest Historical Abstract indicates Foster was the best pitcher in the Negro Leagues in three different seasons, 1927, 1931, and 1932. The Baseball Think Factory guys calculate that he earned 49 Black Ink points in the Negro Leagues and 97 Gray Ink points.

                  The Baseball Think Factory guys project him as deserving of a 212-136 record, worth 205 Fibonacci win points. They also project him at 254 career win shares, 131 in his best 5 consecutive, and top three of 33, 28 and 27. In my opinion, those marks are deserving of a slot between Ted Lyons (311 career, 110 best 5 consecutive, top three of 30, 26 and 23 and 168 Fibonacci) and Jim Bunning (252 career, 100 best 5 consecutive, top three of 30, 27 and 26 with a Fibonacci of 163).

                  William McNeil on page 203 of Cool Papas and Double Duties says Willie Foster "is generally considered to be the greatest left-handed pitcher in Negro league history."

                  Fom Riley's Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Leagues, page 292:
                  Willie Foster was a pitching star for the Chicago American Giants for over a decade. With near-perfect control and a wide assortment of pitches, [many] delivered with the same motion, the tall left-hander was at his best when the stakes were the highest. With a crucial game to win, Willie was the kind of pitcher a manager wanted on the mound. He was a smart pitcher who knew how to get the most out of his vast repertory of pitches, which included a blazing fastball, a fast-breaking drop, a sidearm curve, and a masterful change of pace.
                  Jim Albright
                  Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                  Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                  A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Shigeo Nagashima

                    Japanese Record

                    He is the most popular player ever in Japan, lauded for his clutch play and superb defense. He was named the best third baseman in the Central League in each of his seventeen seasons, and won the only two Gold Gloves awarded in his career (in the final two years of his career). He won 5 MVPs, 6 batting titles, 5 RBI titles, batted over .300 in 11 seasons, and had 25 or more homers 12 seasons. He also was named the MVP of the Japan Series four times.

                    In Baseball's Other Stars, Daniel Johnson, William McNeil and Fumihiro Fujisawara all name him the best third baseman in Japanese baseball history. McNeil names him as the starting third baseman on his all-world non major league team and as the reserve third baseman on his all-time all world team. I concur that he was the best third baseman ever in Japan, and have named him the third best player there ever. I also consider him the second best player in Japan in the 1960's, behind Oh.

                    In 1961, the Yomiuri Giants trained with the Dodgers in Vero Beach. Walter O'Malley was so impressed with Nagashima he tried to buy Nagashima's contract, only to be turned down flat by Giant ownership. (pp. 72-73. The Meaning of Ichiro by Robert Whiting)

                    Wally Yonamine on Nagashima on pp 28-29 of Remembering Japanese Baseball by Robert Fitts:
                    Nagashima was such a natural athlete. Nagashima. . . could field [and] could hit. . . He was a showman. . . When you really needed one, he came through for you.
                    Glenn Mickens, also from the Fitts book:
                    Shigeo Nagashima was the best all-around playerI saw over there. Oh was undoubtedly one of the greatest hitters they ever had, but for running, throwing and hustling, Nagashima was the best.
                    The late Don Blasingame, who also managed in Japan, from the Fitts book: "Nagashima could do it all. He had defense, speed, and he could hit."

                    Japanese stats
                    AB 8094
                    R 1270
                    H 2471
                    2B 418
                    3B 74
                    HR 444
                    RBI 1522
                    BB 969
                    K 729
                    SB 190
                    avg .305
                    OBP .379
                    slg .540

                    Major League Projection
                    AB 9210
                    H 2569
                    2B 401
                    3B 187
                    HR 271
                    avg .279
                    OBP .368
                    slg .451

                    This projection meets 57 HOF standards, and the average HOFer "only" meets 50. I did a study comparing Nagashima to all the third basemen who had at least two thirds of their careers after 1920 and were either in the HOF or finished in the top ten in BBWAA voting. That study is here: http://baseballguru.com/jalbright/an...igeo_Nagashima The categories examined were runs created, runs created per 27 outs, OPS, runs scored and RBI, pitting Nagashima's projected figures versus the others. Each man scored based on his ranking in the group, and Nagashima came out fifth, behind Schmidt, Brett, Boggs and Mathews and ahead of Santo, Brooks Robinson and Pie Traynor, not to mention Freddy Lindstrom and George Kell.

                    In a study of projected individual seasons here http://baseballguru.com/jalbright/an...html#Nagashima , Nagashima had four MVP candidate/Hall of Famer type years, which combined with at least two other years which were clearly All-Star quality and a third year which might have been an All-Star effort plus excellent defense sounds like a Cooperstown resume, especially when he had nine other seasons, at least five of which would be the quality one would expect from a good regular. The seven years identified were worth approximately 200 win shares in the majors. He should have accumulated over 350 career win shares had he been in the majors, and over 80% of players with between 350 and 400 career win shares are in so long as they don't get into Pete Rose/Joe Jackson-type problems.

                    Jim Albright
                    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I haven't participated in these elections in several months, but I'm glad to see Stan Coveleski and Kirby Puckett finally make it.

                      How much did Puckett's induction have to do with his recent death? It's unfortunate that sometimes it takes tragic circumstances to really appreciate someone.

                      As for Coveleski, he just seems lost to history. Very good pitcher, but never gets any mention, good or bad.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DoubleX
                        I haven't participated in these elections in several months, but I'm glad to see Stan Coveleski and Kirby Puckett finally make it.

                        How much did Puckett's induction have to do with his recent death? It's unfortunate that sometimes it takes tragic circumstances to really appreciate someone.

                        As for Coveleski, he just seems lost to history. Very good pitcher, but never gets any mention, good or bad.
                        Puckett was almost there last month, before anyone had any inkling of his premature demise. He probably would have made it this month in any event.

                        Jim Albright
                        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Before the old discussion thread went to cyberspace oblivion, I posted an idea to try and revive discussion here. Since it seems we're low on passion for candidates, maybe we still have it against them--or at least can provoke discussion that way. What I'm interested in is a list of several candidates you have yet to be convinced you will ever support. The twist is, I want them to be candidates receiving a good degree of support in the BBF HOF voting who have yet to get in--say at least 8 votes of the 23 cast this month. Since you're taking on candidates getting good support, I think it is incumbent upon those who actually want to provide a list to provide their reasons for their stances.

                          Jim Albright
                          Last edited by jalbright; 03-26-2006, 12:03 PM.
                          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'll start with my contributor list, which is not so much a matter of opposition as it is that I have yet to be convinced to give these guys my support.

                            1. Clark Griffith. I know he's one of the founding owners of the AL. but I don't get the sense he was one of the driving forces there. What did he do that merits the honor? I'm listening, but I haven't seen enough yet.

                            2. Jack Dunn. He found a lot of fine players and had some wonderful Baltimore Oriole teams in the International League. Show me how much individual credit he deserves for players like Lefty Grove and you might sway me. Right now, though, what I see is he fought a good fight against the majors and lost. That doesn't cut it for me.

                            3. Ernie Harwell. A good broadcaster with a long career. Fine--but lots of cities can boast that. I'm not going there. What influence did he have on a national level?

                            Jim Albright
                            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Now for my player list:

                              1. Albert Belle If I evaluated guys just on peak, he'd make it. But I put serious emphasis on career accomplishments. He's seriously short there, so much so that it sinks his candidacy for me. For more of my analysis of Belle, see this post: http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.p...&postcount=151

                              2. Chuck Klein The problem with him is he was a monster in the Baker Bowl, just another player elsewhere. Check out his splits in the post I'll refer you to. To me, a guy whose sole claim to fame is a unique abilty to exploit one park doesn't have a good enough case--and Klein epitomizes that idea for me. See post http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.p...&postcount=155

                              3. Mickey Welch Yes, I'm big on career accomplishments, so I can't dismiss a 300 game winner lightly. The problem is, he only pitched 13 years, so that accomplishment isn't the result of being a very good pitcher for a very long time. If you look at his gray ink, you might think he was spectacular for the time he did play. Unfortunately, a large portion of that ink comes from 7th place and lower finishes in leagues where teams were using 3 or less pitchers as their "rotation". Those kind of finishes are good, but not great in my view. So what it boils down to for me is he won 300 games because he pitched for good teams and the circumstances allowed him to get a lot of innings for those teams. See this post for more: http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.p...&postcount=192

                              Jim Albright
                              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                              Comment

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