Juan Gonzalez a Hall of Famer?

[abacab]

"It's never iffy if it's Griffey! ..... That blows." - Kenny Mayne

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Thomas and Griffey aren't iffy; they're locks.

For that matter Gonzo's still more likely than not right now; if he manages a couple more decent seasons he'll be a lock.

Let me rephrase my words. I still believe Thomas and Griffey will get in but I don't think they are locks. Locks are 1st ballot HoFers and I'm not sure that they are. Of course both stll have a few more years left for them to strngthen their candidacies.

[csh19792001]

Let me rephrase my words. I still believe Thomas and Griffey will get in but I don't think they are locks. Locks are 1st ballot HoFers and I'm not sure that they are. Of course both stll have a few more years left for them to strngthen their candidacies.

Of consequence?
According to The Baseball Encyclopedia (2004) Juan Gonzalez has the highest RBI/150 games (126) of anyone in QUITE awhile. They break it down by era.

RBI's are overrated and team dependent; but it's hard to ignore that kind of production for one's team, I think.

Sidebar (leaders for each era)
1876-1892 Sam Thompson (139)
1893-1900 Ed Delahanty (120)
1901-1920 Nap Lajoie (97)
1921-42 Lou Gehrig (138)
1943-60 Ted Williams (120)
1961-72 Hank Aaron (105)
1973-87 Jim Rice (104)
1988-2003- Juan Gonzalez (126)

Of note- steroid user Blarry Bonds isn't even in the top 10 in his own era.

[RuthMayBond]

Of consequence?
According to The Baseball Encyclopedia (2004) Juan Gonzalez has the highest RBI/150 games (126) of anyone in QUITE awhile. They break it down by era.

RBI's are overrated and team dependent; but it's hard to ignore that kind of production for one's team, I think.

Sidebar (leaders for each era)
1876-1892 Sam Thompson (139)
1893-1900 Ed Delahanty (120)
1901-1920 Nap Lajoie (97)
1921-42 Lou Gehrig (138)
1943-60 Ted Williams (120)
1961-72 Hank Aaron (105)
1973-87 Jim Rice (104)
1988-2003- Juan Gonzalez (126)

Of note- steroid user Blarry Bonds isn't even in the top 10 in his own era.

Walks will do that, brainiac

[ElHalo]

Walks will do that, brainiac

Not my fault he decides not to try to swing at pitches out of the strike zone.

[RuthMayBond]

Not my fault he decides not to try to swing at pitches out of the strike zone.

And it's not Barry's "fault" that he takes a 1.000 OBP with a walk rather than something a lot less with pitches out of the zone. Maybe you should be his batting coach since you know so much more

[ElHalo]

And it's not Barry's "fault" that he takes a 1.000 OBP with a walk rather than something a lot less with pitches out of the zone. Maybe you should be his batting coach since you know so much more

Wouldn't begin to claim that I know more about hitting than Barry Bonds. Just chew on this: Since his offensive explosion in 2001, Barry has no R titles, no RBI titles, and only two top 10 RBI finishes. So ask yourself: For a guy who's OBP and SLG have been absolutely blowing away the competition for four years, how truly valuable is Barry?

[RuthMayBond]

Wouldn't begin to claim that I know more about hitting than Barry Bonds. Just chew on this: Since his offensive explosion in 2001, Barry has no R titles, no RBI titles, and only two top 10 RBI finishes. So ask yourself: For a guy who's OBP and SLG have been absolutely blowing away the competition for four years, how truly valuable is Barry?

He wasn't bad in '02. As for the Yankee definition of winning the World Series, you would say he has no value. As for a definition of contributing towards winning games (especially hard given the lack of lineup help), he's been pretty valuable. How else do you think the Giants almost led the league in scoring last year?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Wouldn't begin to claim that I know more about hitting than Barry Bonds. Just chew on this: Since his offensive explosion in 2001, Barry has no R titles, no RBI titles, and only two top 10 RBI finishes. So ask yourself: For a guy who's OBP and SLG have been absolutely blowing away the competition for four years, how truly valuable is Barry?

Mickey Mantle only had four 100 RBI seasons in his career. I guess he wasn't that valuable either.

[csh19792001]

Not my fault he decides not to try to swing at pitches out of the strike zone.

Yeah-
Every pitch even AN INCH off the plate, even with runners in scoring position.

"Take the walk EVERY TIME"- what a brillant tautology. Maybe if he'd swung a couple of times or not sat out a few of those games, they would have made the playoffs, eh, RMB?

[RuthMayBond]

Yeah-
Every pitch even AN INCH off the plate, even with runners in scoring position.

I'm impressed with your measuring device and your capacity to watch every pitch to Bonds

[csh19792001]

Mickey Mantle only had four 100 RBI seasons in his career. I guess he wasn't that valuable either.

Totally different run scoring environment, Honus.

[west coast orange and black]

If you were to ask people in 1999 about the HoF chances of Juan Gonzales, Frank Thomas, and Griffey EVERYONE would have said they will fly into the HoF. These three won five MVP awards in the from 1993-1998. Now because of injuries and reduced production all three are somewhat iffy.

i almost agree with you, wags. i gotta go with gonzales and thomas being iffy and griffey with better chance than that.
as for "hall of fame lock": this means, to me, being a first ballot entry.

[west coast orange and black]

Not my fault he decides not to try to swing at pitches out of the strike zone.

no one is blaming you, elhalo. but when bonds is being pitched to, many of the pitches can not be hit with even a shovel.
the ones that are reachable with a shovel are sometimes not worth swinging at, as they'd probably result in a popup or simple groundout.
as far as runs scored, pujols had 133 (154 g) last season, and bonds followed closely behind with 129 (147g). again, bonds was not on top, but second ain't all that bad.

[west coast orange and black]

Wouldn't begin to claim that I know more about hitting than Barry Bonds. Just chew on this: Since his offensive explosion in 2001, Barry has no R titles, no RBI titles, and only two top 10 RBI finishes. So ask yourself: For a guy who's OBP and SLG have been absolutely blowing away the competition for four years, how truly valuable is Barry?

there is only one recipient for runs scored, batting and rbi titles. that bonds is not that person hardly discounts his importance and value.