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Your position on Steroids, and have you been to the HOF??

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  • Your position on Steroids, and have you been to the HOF??

    Lots of opinions lately on the HOF issue, and specifically Bonds and the other Balco players, and of couse weh ave all read the widely varied opinions as to whether or not these guys are HOF'ers or not.

    I am curious how many of those who would vote Barry, Palmiero, McGwire, Sosa et all into HOF have actually been to Cooperstown?

    I for one was finally able to definitively form my opinion on the issue, but not until I stood amongst all the plaques with my father and my son.

    So.... where do you come out on the issue? Is he a HOF'er? More importantly (maybe) Have you been to the HOF? I am curious if it makes a difference in your opinion. I think it might.

    I for one, have been to the HOF, and with the information that I currently have, Barry Bonds is definitely NOT a Hall of Famer in my opinion.

    Curious about everyone else's answer to these two questions... Is he a HOF'er? Have you been to the HOF?
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  • #2
    1. I don't give a crap about steroids

    2. Yes, I have been to the Hall of Fame, it's sweet
    46 wins to match last year's total


    • #3
      What does actually having been to Cooperstown have to do with this? I finally made the long-awaited trek to Cooperstown last September, and I was underwhelmed (then again, I had probably over-built it in my head over the years).


      • #4
        1. I think a positive test for PED, an admission of PED use or the discovery of PED use should mean an automatic ban from the HOF regardless of when the discovery happens (hear that Mark?)

        2. I've been twice but I don't think it changes my opinion.


        • #5
          1.Barry Bonds can do whatever he wants to get an edge on the competition. If he wants to take steroids, I don't endorse that certainly and don't like the fact he's taking them, but it makes little to no impression on my thoughts of him as a HOFer.

          2.I have been to the HOF, but I too don't understand how that is relevant to this steroids issue.


          • #6
            1.) I don't care about " cheating ". As an athlete myself, I know that it's very common to try and get an edge over the competition. The only type of " cheating " that should warrant a lifetime ban from the HOF is throwing away games.

            2.) I've never been to the HOF, though I hope to go one day.


            • #7
              1) I think that steroid use should be taken into consideration when electing players to the Hall of Fame. The difference between Raffy Palmeiro and Mark Grace is that one used steroids and one didn't. Had they both been on a level playing field they would put up similar numbers. So why should I reward someone who joined the Tiny Testicle club just to gain an edge?

              2) Yes I have been to the Baseball Hall of Fame and it is awesome. Cooperstown is a beautiful little town so it's a nice place to visit. Definitely nicer than the basketball and football HOF.
              "Batting slumps? I never had one. When a guy hits .358, he doesn't have slumps."

              Rogers Hornsby, 1961


              • #8
                I've been to the HOF several times, I know that I will make more trips in my life and I know that one of those trips will include my first glance at the Bonds plaque. It doesn't bother me at all.

                I wouldn't vote for the other three, whether or not I have been or intend to return to Cooperstown.

                In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die


                • #9
                  1. Steroids are morally wrong and I admire those players who chose not to use them for showing good character. That said, if a player becomes eligible for the Hall of Fame and is known/thought to use steroids, his case will receive some demerits for the "character, integrity, and sportsmanship" clause and his performance will have to be re-evaluated, but I don't see that changing my vote to a "no" unless it's already a borderline case.

                  2. I spent my sixteenth birthday at the Hall of Fame. It was a moving experience. However, it has absolutely no bearing on what I think constitutes a Hall-of-Famer. Nor should it.
                  "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                  "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                  "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                  "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe


                  • #10
                    Steroids-----While they were still legal from MLBs point of view how can you knock a player for trying to get all the edge he could?Let's not forget that guys from another era were doing everything they could to get an edge as well. Mickey Mantle had to drop out of the M&M boys race vs Ruth when Mel Allens Dr gave him an "energy" shot that led to infection and closed Mickey down for the season. Teams were driving guys to bounce back from injury over the years and if they didn't they were considered less then a gamer. Owners, Selig included were chasing the buck and home runs and wins built the ballparks and bank accounts. That said I would have had a lot of respect for McGwire and Bonds if they had just told America " Yep, I used them, they were not banned and I wanted to do everything I could to help my team and myself excel." It's the guys like Raffy who still used them after the ban and spotlight that get me.I hope baseball stays roid free because baseball is a lithe, agile game and it needs to return to it.
                    PS Several Steeler linemen from the great 70's teams are dead from Roid abuse .Do we take the Steeler records down?
                    HOF. Went there twice.First time as a wide eyed 10 year old in 69 and the next time to see REJAX get in. Magnificent place , what a setting. Heaven on Earth!


                    • #11
                      1. Steroid use needs to be considered, but within the guidelines of how baseball treats them. It's just the latest form of gaining an edge, usage is probably more widespread than Bonds, Palmeiro, McGwire and Sosa, they only seem to have benefitted on the field the most. Without the reigns in, they can't be faulted entirely.
                      2. Been to the HOF twice, likely going again this year. It's a museum. A nice one, but still a museum. I hate to sound like a cliche, but so many of the players enshrined benefitted from "advantages" chemical or otherwise. This can't be a pick and choose your poison.
                      Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                      Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                      Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                      Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                      Robin Bill Ernie JEDI


                      • #12
                        This argument that it was okay for guys to use steroids simply because MLB was too stupid to ban them has no merit because steroids were ILLEGAL. These guys were going beyond the rules of the game and breaking the law. Does MLB have to put the penal code of every major league city in the rule book? How about federal laws, state laws or local deed restrictions? Not only were these guys blatant cheaters, they were criminal scum.


                        • #13

                          I had not truly formed my opinion on who should be in and who should not be in, but then I went to the HOF in 2005. It was a terrific experience, and the HOF is a magical place. I could not help but stand amongst the HOF plaques, and wonder about the millions of fathers, sons etc. (I was there with my Dad, and my son) who had been there before me, and who would come after.

                          Regardless if you think a racist should be enshrined, or a gambler on games, or a Steroid user, to me, standing amongst the HOF plaques made up my mind. The current crop of voters should not vote in players with substantial suspicion of steroid use. Period. Hundreds of Thousands of players have played MLB ball, what, 300 are in the HOF? It is a terribly exclusive club, and the HOF does not need "beyond a reasonable doubt." It is not a court of law.

                          Voters in the past made mistakes, some of them would have voted differently now, had they known then certain information. Although that is unfortunate, it does not, IMO, make Bonds a HOF'er. Or McGwire, and certainly not Palmeiro, who actually failed a test. A plaque for these three lessens the HOF, IMO.

                          I can only hope that the current voters make the right decision in my book.

                          Perhaps the timing of my visit had something to do with my strong feelings.... I am surprised how many of you who have been there (and enjoyed it to varying degrees) would not have a problem with a Steroid user being voted in, with the information we currently have....

                          Shoeless Joe was a HOF'er before he did what he did too. Rose was a HOF'er before he did what he did.... They are "ineligible" but just because Bonds and McGwire were HOF'er before they did what they did.... sorry. They can buy a ticket.

                          Bryan in Indy.
                          "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."


                          • #14
                            I believe that people who used steroids should not be in the hall of fame. They didnt earn those stats, they took a drug that enabled them to get those numbers. But it is tough to know who exactly took them and who didnt. People who cheated to get HOF numbers should not be on the same level of people who acheived greatness with their god given talent

                            Ive never been to cooperstown, hopefully ill be able to go there soon.
                            go sox.



                            • #15

                              While I respect your right to hold a very different opinion than my own regarding steroid use and its desired effect on Hall of Fame merit, the fact that you apparently couldn't make up your mind about the issue until you had implanted yourself in the passion of the moment betrays your lack of decision-making ability. Dale Petrovsky and Jane Clark Forbes just love people like you. Makes me so sick I just wanna wipe my butt with my Ozzie Smith rookie card and watch it do "backflips" into the stool.

                              I suppose you shouldn't vote for president in 2008 until you get to personally shake the hand of one of the candidates. Go home and have another cry watching Beaches again. Your brand of "good vibrations" has no place in the real world. Ballplayers are human. They make mistakes. What the Hall of Fame honors are the great players of the past. Your kind of legalism is neither practical nor warranted.

                              I only hope you aren't judged by the same standards that you judge others by. Puh-lease..take your heart off your sleeve and grow up.
                              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe


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