Your position on Steroids, and have you been to the HOF??

[Captain Cold Nose]

This argument that it was okay for guys to use steroids simply because MLB was too stupid to ban them has no merit because steroids were ILLEGAL. These guys were going beyond the rules of the game and breaking the law. Does MLB have to put the penal code of every major league city in the rule book? How about federal laws, state laws or local deed restrictions? Not only were these guys blatant cheaters, they were criminal scum.

Criminal scum? The players weren't knocking off grocery stores or stealing from pension funds or burning down buildings for insurance money. Have a little perspective. The one thing I don't get is why so many seem to be taking this so personally. Are people's lives that mundane that this is what brings out so much outrage?

[Chadwick]

Are people's lives that mundane that this is what brings out so much outrage?

Apparently.

What really kills me is that many of the media and fans in the anti-steroid lynch mob were leading the pack during 1998 when crowds were cheering all the home runs flying out of major league ballparks.

There was a decided turn of events around the time that Barry Bonds surpassed "nice guys" McGwire and Sosa on the single season chart. More of this has to do with the baseball media's hatred of Bonds - with or without steroids - than it does with righteous indignation over "cheating."

[Lindseynelson]

I really don't understand why people could care less about the 70's and 80's NFL use and yet are crazed about baseball. How many yards did Franco or John Riggins gain because the lineman of their teams were juiced and could physically move their opponent from brute strength? In baseball ,juiced or not ,you still have to hit a 90 mile an hour round object with another round object squarely.The lineman in Jim Browns and Donny Andersens day were 250 lb guys who would not stand out in a crowd.10 years later they were 280 lbs with 5% body fat benching 450 lbs. I praise the NFL for cleaning up its house and want baseball to do the same but wow relax folks.

[vasprtsfn]

With this probe upcoming of Barry Bonds, if it is discovered that he is a steroid user, he is not a HOF. If Pete Rose will be kept out of Cooperstown for cheating the game by gambling, Barry Bonds should be kept out of Cooperstown for cheating the game by using steroids.

[Chadwick]

The NFL point is a good one. I've also noticed that many NFL fans aren't still holding a grudge against the players for their 1987 strike, but I know former baseball fans who are still holding out until the 1981 and 1994-95 players are pushing up daisies.

So far as MLB's investigation is concerned, it's best - naturally - to take a wait and see approach. Too bad MLB can't investigate what managers, GMs and owners new and when they knew it? How many here believe that Bud Selig, for example, is at least somewhat culpable for the steroid culture that flourished under his reign?

[StanTheMan]

Bryan,

While I respect your right to hold a very different opinion than my own regarding steroid use and its desired effect on Hall of Fame merit, the fact that you apparently couldn't make up your mind about the issue until you had implanted yourself in the passion of the moment betrays your lack of decision-making ability.

It's a good thing the world does not make up its collective minds about issues within first three seconds thinking about said topic, as you apparently encourage people to do....... Has anyone in America ever changed their opinion after THINKING about the issue, researching, exploring, or VISITING the very cathedral which represents the entire ideal behind the sport? Do you think I walked in to the HOF and asked "OK, what the heck are steroids anyway.... I have never heard about them!!" My goodness........ Were you dead set on your position on, say, the War in Iraq, the moment the first fighter jet entered Iraqi airspace? Heck, some people still don't know what to do with the Bonds situation. Perhaps they are WAITING FOR MORE INFORMATION!!! I have all I need however. I hope these types if "indecisive" individuals don't live in your neighborhood, because they will never get invited to one of your backyard barbeques... BTW, please publish the menu for the next 14,000 meals you will eat. One can't wait until tomorrow to decide things that one can decide today, can they!!!!!



I suppose you shouldn't vote for president in 2008 until you get to personally shake the hand of one of the candidates. Apparently you will decide after you read the very first article, no the very first SENTENCE in the very first article on the candidates. Don't forget to turn the debates off after the first question. He11, send you vote in now... what are you waiting for?

Go home and have another cry watching Beaches again. Your brand of "good vibrations" has no place in the real world. Ballplayers are human. They make mistakes. What the Hall of Fame honors are the great players of the past. Your kind of legalism is neither practical nor warranted.

If EVERY other poster said that Bonds is a bonafide HOF'er, perhaps you would be correct. Apparently, there are others who agree with my brand of "legalism." I do know one thing about my thougts on the "legality" of steroids. The ones Barry Bonds took were illegal on every square inch of soil in this great country.... sorry, in this "average" -- don't want to get all "good vibrations" on you!!

I only hope you aren't judged by the same standards that you judge others by. Puh-lease..take your heart off your sleeve and grow up.

Ummmmm... yeah. Did you have a bad day or something? Perhaps I have a romatic view of baseball.... fair enough to say, I suppose. If the alternative is celebrating Ben Johnson's gold medal (I bet people like you had a poster on your wall for years after his disgrace) or Diego Maradona's being kicked out of the World Cup with no less than FIVE types of Ephedra in his system, or wearing your East German Womens Swimming Team Rocks T-Shirt to all the parties you go to is your idea of sport... go for it. I want the game that my children grow up watching to be as clean as possible (something that none of us posting here can say we grew up watching). If that is something you don't agree with, then fine... as you say, we each have our opinion.

Gotta Go..... Angels in the Outfield is on TBS again.

[Taco De Muerte]

1.) Don't really care about steroids. It's just one of the many ways to get an edge over your opponents. The outcry over this " scandal " will eventually blow over.

2.) Never been to the HOF.

[StanTheMan]

[QUOTE=Chancellor]
So far as MLB's investigation is concerned, it's best - naturally - to take a wait and see approach. [QUOTE]

the fact that you apparently can't make up your mind about the issue betrays your lack of decision-making ability. Dale Petrovsky and Jane Clark Forbes just love people like you. Makes me so sick I just wanna wipe my butt with my Karl Marx rookie card.

So I cannot change my mind, decide once and for all, or make any type of decision using any portion of the HOF experience... but you want to go ahead and take a "wait and see approach?" Sounds like apples to apples to me, but I have enough info to decide in my mind if Bonds is a HOF or not.

You don't. apparently. Congratulations!!

[runningshoes]

I despise them and I've been there twice.

[chrismarullo]

Apparently.

What really kills me is that many of the media and fans in the anti-steroid lynch mob were leading the pack during 1998 when crowds were cheering all the home runs flying out of major league ballparks.

There was a decided turn of events around the time that Barry Bonds surpassed "nice guys" McGwire and Sosa on the single season chart. More of this has to do with the baseball media's hatred of Bonds - with or without steroids - than it does with righteous indignation over "cheating."

I was 16 in 1998 and pretty niave about what was going on as far as cheating and drugs-as was most of the country apparantly.

I couldn't care less if it was a nice cuddly guy like McGwire, a jerk like Bonds or Jesus H. Christ. If they cheated and certainly if they broke the law in order to cheat then they have no buisness in the Hall of Fame.

Are only saints allowed in the Hall? Certainly not. Are there cheaters in the Hall? More than likey.

But if MLB has a chance, right here, right now to prevent at least 1 more cheater to gaining entry into Cooperstown, then I think they should do whatever it takes to do it.

[runningshoes]

1.Barry Bonds can do whatever he wants to get an edge on the competition. If he wants to take steroids, I don't endorse that certainly and don't like the fact he's taking them, but it makes little to no impression on my thoughts of him as a HOFer.

2.I have been to the HOF, but I too don't understand how that is relevant to this steroids issue..

My guess is he's wondering whether walking those hallowed has really made you think the steroid users don't belong among the greats there.

It's about the emotion.

[StanTheMan]

My guess is he's wondering whether walking those hallowed has really made you think the steroid users don't belong among the greats there.

It's about the emotion.

Exactly.

[vasprtsfn]

Some of the HOFers have been outspoken in saying that they want their plaques taken down if Pete Rose is ever elected. I wonder if they would feel the same way if a steroids user is ever elected.

[cavalier1968]

Mark Grace disagrees

look below

[cavalier1968]

Mark Grace disagrees

Bryan,

While I respect your right to hold a very different opinion than my own regarding steroid use and its desired effect on Hall of Fame merit, the fact that you apparently couldn't make up your mind about the issue until you had implanted yourself in the passion of the moment betrays your lack of decision-making ability. Dale Petrovsky and Jane Clark Forbes just love people like you. Makes me so sick I just wanna wipe my butt with my Ozzie Smith rookie card and watch it do "backflips" into the stool.

I suppose you shouldn't vote for president in 2008 until you get to personally
shake the hand of one of the candidates. Go home and have another cry watching Beaches again. Your brand of "good vibrations" has no place in the real world. Ballplayers are human. They make mistakes. What the Hall of Fame honors are the great players of the past. Your kind of legalism is neither practical nor warranted.

I only hope you aren't judged by the same standards that you judge others by. Puh-lease..take your heart off your sleeve and grow up.

SNR: Sosa was hitting 60 home runs year after year, and now he can't even get into the major leagues. Are you surprised by that?

Grace: There's a lot of guys that are not playing anymore, that are not even good players anymore, ever since they started testing for steroids. Welcome to the level playing field. I think it's great.


SNR: Does Sammy Sosa get Mark Grace's vote?
Grace: No. In a word, no.