Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Steve Garvey

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
    What a surprise! BBF (the enlightened) gives him 5% and the HOF voters (those idiots) gave him up to 41% Of course Garvey only got any accolades because he was "popular," LOL
    If the HOF voters are so wise, why do you have 27 actual HOF players (excluding Negro Leaguers) outside of your personal HOF? Even if you're just talking about the BBWAA, these are the same sages who voted in such all-time greats as Herb Pennock and Bruce Sutter; who gave 39% support to the illustrious Harvey Kuenn; and who have thus far denied induction to dozens of members of your personal Hall, including Dick Allen, Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Mike Piazza, Alan Trammell, and Lou Whitaker (3% on his first and only ballot).
    Last edited by Nerdlinger; 02-25-2014, 04:25 AM.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

    Comment


    • What a shock, BBF agrees with the writers about a non-HOFer. But, hey, focusing on one year's totals out of 15 is all you need when you're always dancing the hyperbole twist.

      Who cares about numbers, he was POPULAR! Never mind the majority of writers who dismissed Garvey grew each and every year. You can't talk about that while twisting away the reasons why that happened.
      Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
      Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
      Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
      Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
      Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

      Comment


      • Originally posted by willshad View Post
        I can't believe how long this thread is, about a guy whose HOF credentials can be summed up in a few words.

        Peak not long enough.

        The guys arguing that he belongs are just as bad as the guys arguing that he was a bum. He was Pete Rose, with a peak half as long. That doesn't make him a bum, but it makes him only about 2/3 of a HOFer. If his peak had lasted 4 or 5 years more, and he achieved 3000 hits, along with a huge RBI total, I don't think anyone would be arguing against him, much like they don't argue against Clemente, Winfield, or Molitor.
        2/3 of a HOFer. That's actually not bad.
        Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
        Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
        Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
        Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
        Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Nerdlinger View Post
          If the HOF voters are so wise, why do you have 27 actual HOF players (excluding Negro Leaguers) outside of your personal HOF? Even if you're just talking about the BBWAA, these are the same sages who voted in such all-time greats as Herb Pennock and Bruce Sutter; who gave 39% support to the illustrious Harvey Kuenn; and who have thus far denied induction to dozens of members of your personal Hall, including Dick Allen, Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Mike Piazza, Alan Trammell, and Lou Whitaker (3% on his first and only ballot).
          And the same group who dropped Simmons after one ballot, didn't elect Johnny Mize and waited 3-4 years to elect the greatest player in the history of the universe (according to some), Joe Dimaggio.

          Anything they do should be taken with a grain of salt. I trust BBFers collective Brain Trust more than the BBWAA.
          The thing some people are going to have the hardest time accepting... most of the people voting "no" in this poll aren't even "sabernerds" and neither were the 60-80% who voted no on Garvey every year. There goes that strawman.

          Thank gosh we have people like Garvey who there is sabermetric and BBWAA agreement on. Neither think he is worthy. Hypothetically, that should take care of some of the arguing.
          Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 02-25-2014, 07:02 AM.
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
            What a surprise! BBF (the enlightened) gives him 5% and the HOF voters (those idiots) gave him up to 41% Of course Garvey only got any accolades because he was "popular," LOL
            Speaking of "surprises"...
            "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
            "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
            "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
            "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
              And the same group who dropped Simmons after one ballot, didn't elect Johnny Mize and waited 3-4 years to elect the greatest player in the history of the universe (according to some), Joe Dimaggio.

              Anything they do should be taken with a grain of salt. I trust BBFers collective Brain Trust more than the BBWAA.
              The thing some people are going to have the hardest time accepting... Most of the people voting "no" in this poll aren't even "sabernerds" and neither were the 60-80% who voted no on Garvey every year. There goes that strawman.

              Thank gosh we have people like Garvey who there is sabermetric and BBWAA agreement on. Neither think he is worthy. Hypothetically, that should take care of some of the arguing.
              Remember, though, Baseball Fever hates DiMaggio. One poster desn't really care for him, so, as a rule, the entire site thinks he's not a great player.
              Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
              Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
              Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
              Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
              Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

              Comment


              • Originally posted by NJRob65 View Post
                1. Lou Gehrig
                2. Jimmie Foxx
                3. Mark McGwire
                4. Jeff Bagwell
                5. Eddie Murray
                6. Johnny Mize
                7. Harmon Killebrew
                8. Hank Greenberg
                9. Willie McCovey
                10. Frank Thomas
                11. Cap Anson
                12. Don Mattingly
                13. Tony Perez
                14. Will Clark
                15. Dick Allen
                16. Keith Hernandez
                17. Orlando Cepeda
                18. Dan Brouthers
                19. Rafael Palmeiro
                20. Norm Cash
                21. Fred McGriff
                22. Roger Connor
                23. Mickey Vernon
                24. George Sisler
                25. Frank Chance
                26. Bill Terry
                27. Boog Powell
                28. Cecil Cooper
                29. Dolph Camilli
                30. Gil Hodges
                31. Steve Garvey
                32. Mark Grace
                33. Bob Watson
                34. Ted Kluszewski
                35. Jack Fournier
                36. Jim Bottomley
                37. Wally Joyner
                38. Hal Trosky
                39. Bill White
                40. Kent Hrbek

                After Bill Terry, at 26, the only Hall of Fame member is Jim Bottomley, a "Frankie Frisch" pick. Gil Hodges did receive over 50% of the BBWAA but never was elected and is still not a HoF member.
                Someone forgot the immortal George "Highpockets" Kelly, another FOFF selection.
                "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                Comment


                • Is this poll going to be combined with the old Garvey thread so that there aren't two of these floating around? Or does Cowtipper have to sign off on HoF merges?
                  "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by willshad View Post
                    I can't believe how long this thread is, about a guy whose HOF credentials can be summed up in a few words.

                    Peak not long enough.

                    The guys arguing that he belongs are just as bad as the guys arguing that he was a bum. He was Pete Rose, with a peak half as long. That doesn't make him a bum, but it makes him only about 2/3 of a HOFer. If his peak had lasted 4 or 5 years more, and he achieved 3000 hits, along with a huge RBI total, I don't think anyone would be arguing against him, much like they don't argue against Clemente, Winfield, or Molitor.
                    You really think Garvey was as good as Rose? Rose could throw, run and field anywhere. While he didn't have Garvey's power he was a better hitter for average and had better plate discipline. The only thing Garvey has on Rose is power.
                    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                    Comment


                    • Yes, Steve Garvey belongs in the HOF. The Steroid Era coincided with his time on the HOF ballot. That is what kept him from climbing up to 75 percent like some others who at one point or another scored lower than Garvey on particular ballot.

                      Nuf' Said.
                      Your Second Base Coach
                      Garvey, Lopes, Russell, and Cey started 833 times and the Dodgers went 498-335, for a .598 winning percentage. That’s equal to a team going 97-65 over a season. On those occasions when at least one of them missed his start, the Dodgers were 306-267-1, which is a .534 clip. That works out to a team going 87-75. So having all four of them added 10 wins to the Dodgers per year.
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5hCIvMule0

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by NJRob65 View Post
                        I don't know about anyone else, I was around for all of Garvey's career and was a baseball fan for most of it. I saw him play live several dozen times and probably at least a hundred or so times on television, seems bizarre that you believe Garvey was such a great player that anyone who saw him play could possibly believe that he was, and in some cases, still is tremendously overrated with an over reliance on observation and group think.
                        Did you watch any All-Star games? How about the NLCS?

                        Post number #1500 of the thread is mine. Sweet!
                        Last edited by Second Base Coach; 02-25-2014, 07:47 AM.
                        Your Second Base Coach
                        Garvey, Lopes, Russell, and Cey started 833 times and the Dodgers went 498-335, for a .598 winning percentage. That’s equal to a team going 97-65 over a season. On those occasions when at least one of them missed his start, the Dodgers were 306-267-1, which is a .534 clip. That works out to a team going 87-75. So having all four of them added 10 wins to the Dodgers per year.
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5hCIvMule0

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
                          Remember, though, Baseball Fever hates DiMaggio. One poster desn't really care for him, so, as a rule, the entire site thinks he's not a great player.
                          Yep. Same thing with Lou Brock. Everyone here hates Lou Brock, but in his Hall of Fame poll Feverarians voted something like 85-90% (with a lot of votes, too) for him to be in the Hall. But we hate him.
                          "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by NJRob65 View Post
                            That would be a peak.

                            Hernandez's career WAR and JAWS were 18th all time among first basemen. His WAA was 14th. By contrast, Garvey ranked 45th among those who played in a minimum of 900 games at 1st base, in both career WAR and JAWS. He ranks 65th in career WAA among first basemen
                            Yet KH could not get more than one out of nine guys to vote for him.
                            Your Second Base Coach
                            Garvey, Lopes, Russell, and Cey started 833 times and the Dodgers went 498-335, for a .598 winning percentage. That’s equal to a team going 97-65 over a season. On those occasions when at least one of them missed his start, the Dodgers were 306-267-1, which is a .534 clip. That works out to a team going 87-75. So having all four of them added 10 wins to the Dodgers per year.
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5hCIvMule0

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
                              Remember, though, Baseball Fever hates DiMaggio. One poster desn't really care for him, so, as a rule, the entire site thinks he's not a great player.
                              Originally posted by Herr28 View Post
                              Yep. Same thing with Lou Brock. Everyone here hates Lou Brock, but in his Hall of Fame poll Feverarians voted something like 85-90% (with a lot of votes, too) for him to be in the Hall. But we hate him.
                              Don't forget that people who rely too much on stats are dorks and championships should be used as a measure of a players value! But "You can't win with a" Bobby Bonds is better than Oscar Charleston because we don't have stats on Charleston. Even though no [not one] serious baseball historian would posit something so ludicrous. That was a classic.
                              "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by drstrangelove View Post
                                There are maybe a few serious baseball fans that take the HoF 'vote' as equivalent to HoF value, but you might not find a lot here.

                                Santo, Doby, Mize, Crawford, Ashburn and Baker all had to enter through the veterans committee. Whitaker, Hodges will have to wait for a VC invite, while Trammell, Raines, Schilling, Mussina, Bagwell and Piazza may have to hope for a VC invite as well. The vote doesn't determine if you are borderline, common sense and analysis does.

                                That doesn't even take into account all the inductees who started with extremely low vote counts. Garvey and Hernandez are similar in one respect: both of their votes bore little resemblance to their actual value...Hernandez was grossly under rated and Garvey was grossly over rated.

                                Year after year? And after a five year cooling off period after which time voters could actually analyze the records and look up what they are voting on? If you read these recent posts without knowledge of their HOF voting results, you would have thought the numbers would be 11 percent for SG and KH would have be in already. Neither was the case.
                                Your Second Base Coach
                                Garvey, Lopes, Russell, and Cey started 833 times and the Dodgers went 498-335, for a .598 winning percentage. That’s equal to a team going 97-65 over a season. On those occasions when at least one of them missed his start, the Dodgers were 306-267-1, which is a .534 clip. That works out to a team going 87-75. So having all four of them added 10 wins to the Dodgers per year.
                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5hCIvMule0

                                Comment

                                Ad Widget

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X