Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Steve Garvey

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I agree. Baseball is a family sport.
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

    Comment


    • Let's not forget that Garvey also came along during a historically weak point for fist basemen, especially in the NL. For most of his prime, he was far and above the rest of the guys at his position. I think this helped a lot in his perception as a huge star.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by willshad View Post

        It's interesting how sometimes an early career 'future HOFer' tag will stick for a long time. Some guys who peak early and also decline early don't lose much status (think Griffey Jr, Rice, or F Thomas) while others fall out of favor. Garvey is kind of in the middle, he peaked early, at one point was seen as an easy future HOFer but is still seen as something of a borderline guy. Contrast to someone like Al Oliver, who looks similar career-wise but wasn't seen as a HOfer while active and peaked late. He is still seen as far behind Garv.

        I think the general consensus is that it's good to peak late, but sometimes I'm not so sure.
        The moniker USUALLY sticks once repeated enough. There are occasional Garveys or Mattinglys...but not many.
        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

        Comment


        • Do you think Steve Garvey would be thrilled, disgusted, incredulous, or totally indifferent if he read through this thread?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post
            Do you think Steve Garvey would be thrilled, disgusted, incredulous, or totally indifferent if he read through this thread?
            99% of the time I would say that the player wouldn't care. But Garvey seems like a very sensitive type - I could see him being a bit frustrated.
            And then promptly forget it as he goes back to his multi-million $$$ lifestyle while laughing at all of us no-life internet jockeys.
            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post
              Do you think Steve Garvey would be thrilled, disgusted, incredulous, or totally indifferent if he read through this thread?
              Not as disgusted as some of his supporters who have posted herein over the years.

              Frankly, while I consider Garvey's case unconvincing, I wouldn't cry over his election. I would just hope that such mistakes are made alongside a mass election of more worthy candidates rather than Garvey alone.

              The Modern Era covering 1970-1987 greats, including non-players, and limited to 10 votes really shouldn't even have Garvey on the ballot. There are too many better-qualified candidates from those years, including the criminally underrated Keith Hernandez.
              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post
                Do you think Steve Garvey would be thrilled, disgusted, incredulous, or totally indifferent if he read through this thread?
                If Garvey comes here and reads through al 261 pages of this thread, I think he'd be pretty irritated since the thread goes nowhere and it would take him the better part of a day. It basically reads like the crappy checkout aisle romance novels that get dumped in the free library at the beach.

                Comment


                • Interesting conversation about fielding at first base here, with data updated with most up-to-date Retrosheet data.

                  Towards the end of the article, guess who pops up as historically poor in certain respects?
                  "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                  "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                  "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                  "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                  Comment


                  • The throwing phobia and the 3-6-3 DP. He was moved from 3B because of the throwing issue or so I have inferred.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                      Not as disgusted as some of his supporters who have posted herein over the years.

                      Frankly, while I consider Garvey's case unconvincing, I wouldn't cry over his election. I would just hope that such mistakes are made alongside a mass election of more worthy candidates rather than Garvey alone.

                      The Modern Era covering 1970-1987 greats, including non-players, and limited to 10 votes really shouldn't even have Garvey on the ballot. There are too many better-qualified candidates from those years, including the criminally underrated Keith Hernandez.
                      Ready to revise your opinion of a certain Paul Konerko based on this?

                      The 1906 "Hitless Wonders" Chicago White Sox were the greatest team of all time.
                      Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for 3 days (baseball signatures only!)

                      Go here for a link to all player links! http://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/...player-threads

                      Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Toledo Inquisition View Post
                        Ready to revise your opinion of a certain Paul Konerko based on this?
                        Not to a fantastical extent (i.e. Hall-worthy).
                        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                          Interesting conversation about fielding at first base here, with data updated with most up-to-date Retrosheet data.

                          Towards the end of the article, guess who pops up as historically poor in certain respects?
                          I was JUST saying a few days ago that Pujos was THE best at throwing out advancing runners I have ever seen. I love it when the data justifies my perceptions. People really undersell just doe dynamic Pujols was a fielder.
                          Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 03-12-2021, 12:09 PM.
                          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by willshad View Post
                            Let's not forget that Garvey also came along during a historically weak point for fist basemen, especially in the NL. For most of his prime, he was far and above the rest of the guys at his position. I think this helped a lot in his perception as a huge star.
                            this is true, and while there are many 5-10 years stretches where he is the best 1b in the NL (or even perhaps baseball) it is less about his output and more about how nobody was really sticking at first in the league at the time. Looking at his first big season, his MVP season of 1974 his 1b peers in the NL were Tony Perez, Lee May and Joe Torre; who were all past their respective primes. Even passed his prime Perez was putting up OPS+s around the same level as Garvey during this time.

                            And after that season you get a revolving door of over the hill players being moved to 1b, younger players who are looking for a position (like Dale Murphy) and Keith Hernandez who showed up and had similar batting averages (actually won a batting title) not as many home runs (but not that far off), many more walks, and was the best fielding first baseman ever when he played.

                            When it comes to Garvey, I am at the point where I wouldn't be angry if he got in, just disappointed. And I would hope that at least Keith Hernandez got in as well, so the world made sense. But the Harold Baines precedent exists so who knows what will happen.

                            "Batting stats and pitching stats do not indicate the quality of play, merely which part of that struggle is dominant at the moment."

                            -Bill James

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                              Interesting conversation about fielding at first base here, with data updated with most up-to-date Retrosheet data.

                              Towards the end of the article, guess who pops up as historically poor in certain respects?
                              there are two things that popup here that I think are worth noting.

                              1) The Garvey stuff, being historically bad at throwing at first base

                              2) Scott Hatteberg being historically bad as well, and basically showing the weakness of the original moneyball way of thinking and how so much has changed. They put no emphasis on defense. The data wasn't there and they did not care. Today, they would take defense into account as well. Which is why I always get a kick out of people here are elsewhere seeing the movie moneyball (or even reading it, but that is more rare) and using that as their whole understanding of advanced baseball analytics. That was what they used 21 years ago, not now.
                              "Batting stats and pitching stats do not indicate the quality of play, merely which part of that struggle is dominant at the moment."

                              -Bill James

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X