Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Hall of Corrections, Election #1

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Hall of Corrections, Election #1

    It’s a crime that certain players are being left out of the Hall of Fame. This is the first in a series of polls to correct the situation.

    Recently, we completed the Hall of Mistakes, identifying the bottom 15% among the players in the HOF. We finished by electing Rollie Fingers and Tony Lazzeri as the 33rd and 34th worst players enshrined. Here’s the entire roster of Mistakes:

    C (2) - Rick Ferrell, Ray Schalk
    1B (2) - George Kelly, Jim Bottomley
    2B (4) - Red Schoendienst, Johnny Evers, Bill Mazeroski, Tony Lazzeri
    3B (3) - Fred Lindstrom, Judy Johnson, George Kell
    SS (4) - Travis Jackson, Joe Tinker, Dave Bancroft, Phil Rizzuto
    LF (2) - Chick Hafey, Heinie Manush
    CF (2) - Lloyd Waner, Earle Combs
    RF (5) - Tommy McCarthy, Ross Youngs, Harry Hooper, Kiki Cuyler, Sam Rice
    P (10) - Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines, Chief Bender, Herb Pennock, Jack Chesbro, Waite Hoyt, Vic Willis, Andy Cooper, Catfish Hunter, Rollie Fingers

    Now, we want to figure out who should replace them. For this election, players must be currently eligible for the Cooperstown Hall, except we will ignore the ten year rule. Also, players from the National Association (1871-75) and previous to this should be considered. Negro leaguers and other players from Black baseball in North America are also eligible, of course. Players retired after 2000 (Ripken, Gwynn, Raines, Henderson, etc.) are not eligible. Players on MLB’s banned list (Rose, J. Jackson, Cicotte, Chase, etc.) and players whose entire career was in Japan (Kaneda, Oh, Nomura, etc.) are also ineligible.

    We will use the Hall’s criteria in deciding player’s merit. That means you should take into account the sum total of the man’s contributions both on and off the field. For example, if you think Curt Flood or Lefty O’Doul’s off-the-field influences were enough to boost his playing career, vote for him. But only if you think his playing career comprises the majority of his overall contribution; this is a player’s election.

    Here are some suggestions as to whom to focus on (* marks players in BBFHOF):

    The top 16 also-rans in BBWAA balloting for 2006
    Jim Rice
    Rich Gossage*
    Andre Dawson*
    Bert Blyleven*
    Lee Smith
    Jack Morris
    Tommy John
    Steve Garvey
    Alan Trammell*
    Dave Parker
    Dave Concepcion
    Don Mattingly
    Orel Hershiser
    Dale Murphy
    Albert Belle
    Will Clark

    The 2005 Veterans Committee Balloting, 25 Players
    Ron Santo*
    Gil Hodges
    Tony Oliva
    Jim Kaat
    Joe Torre*
    Maury Wills
    Vada Pinson
    Luis Tiant
    Roger Maris
    Marty Marion
    Ken Boyer
    Joe Gordon
    Carl Mays
    Minnie Minoso*
    Dick Allen*
    Curt Flood
    Wes Ferrell
    Mickey Lolich
    Don Newcombe
    Sparky Lyle
    Elston Howard
    Bobby Bonds
    Rocky Colavito
    Thurman Munson
    Smoky Joe Wood

    18 Pre-1920 Stars Elected to the Hall of Merit (arranged chronologically)
    Dickey Pearce
    Joe Start
    Lip Pike
    Ross Barnes
    Cal McVey
    Ezra Sutton
    Deacon White*
    Paul Hines*
    Charlie Bennett
    Hardy Richardson
    George Gore
    Harry Stovey
    Jack Glasscock
    Bob Caruthers
    Bill Dahlen*
    Jimmy Sheckard
    Sherry Magee*
    Heinie Groh

    4 More Pre-1920 MLB Players, in the All-Timeline HOF but not in the Coop
    Pete Browning
    Tony Mullane
    Jimmy Ryan
    George Van Haltren

    5 “Top” Negro Leagues Candidates
    John Beckwith
    Grant Johnson
    Dick Lundy
    Dobie Moore
    Dick Redding

    15 Victims of the 5% Rule, Not Yet Eligible for VC Election
    Darrell Evans
    Dwight Evans
    Bobby Grich
    Ron Guidry
    Keith Hernandez
    Fred Lynn
    Graig Nettles
    Al Oliver
    Lance Parrish
    Dan Quisenberry
    Willie Randolph
    Ted Simmons*
    Ken Singleton
    Rusty Staub
    Lou Whitaker

    17 Older Candidates Not Currently On VC Ballot
    Tommy Bridges
    Norm Cash
    Cupid Childs
    Larry Doyle
    Bob Elliott
    Bill Freehan
    Stan Hack
    Bob Johnson
    Charlie Keller
    Tommy Leach
    Al Rosen
    Wally Schang
    Reggie Smith
    Vern Stephens
    Mickey Vernon
    Bucky Walters
    Jimmy Wynn

    Let’s show the 100 players listed above by position:

    P (21) – Blyleven, Bridges, Caruthers, Ferrell, Gossage, Guidry, Hershiser, John, Kaat, Lolich, Lyle, Mays, Morris, Mullane, Newcombe, Quisenberry, Redding, L. Smith, Tiant, Walters, J. Wood.
    C (10) – Bennett, Freehan, Howard, McVey, Munson, Parrish, Schang, Simmons, Torre, D. White.
    1B (9) – Allen, Cash, W. Clark, Garvey, Hernandez, Hodges, Mattingly, Start, Vernon.
    2B (8) – Barnes, Childs, L. Doyle, Gordon, Grich, Randolph, H. Richardson, Whitaker.
    3B (11) – Beckwith, K. Boyer, Elliott, Evans, Groh, Hack, Leach, Nettles, Rosen, Santo, Sutton.
    SS (11) – Concepcion, Dahlen, Glasscock, G. Johnson, Lundy, Marion, D. Moore, Pearce, Stephens, Trammell, Wills.
    LF (9) – Belle, Browning, B. Johnson, Keller, Magee, Minoso, Rice, Sheckard, Stovey.
    CF (11) – Dawson, Flood, Gore, Hines, Lynn, Murphy, Oliver, Pike, Pinson, Van Haltren, Wynn.
    RF(10) – Bonds, Colavito, Evans, Maris, Oliva, Parker, Ryan, Singleton, R. Smith, Staub.

    Candidates are not restricted to these 100 of course. Nine players from the 64-Player VC Tournament that I ran a couple years back are not listed above: Urban Shocker, Gavy Cravath, Tommy Bond, Bobby Veach, Lon Warneke, Herman Long, Jack Fournier, Allie Reynolds, and Lave Cross. Some others who were close to the list were Wally Berger, Sal Bando, Frank Howard, Buddy Myer, Jim McCormick, Jack Quinn and Billy Pierce.

    Voters should list their top ten selections in order. We'll elect three players each election for awhile. Points will be assigned this way: 12-11-10-7-6-5-4-3-2-1.

    This is my list of the ten most deserving candidates for the Hall:

    1. Bert Blyleven
    2. Ron Santo
    3. Minnie Minoso
    4. Bill Dahlen
    5. Bobby Grich
    6. Paul Hines
    7. Dick Allen
    8. Rich Gossage
    9. Alan Trammell
    10.Deacon White
    Last edited by Freakshow; 04-07-2006, 07:02 AM.
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

  • #2
    1. Sherry Magee
    2. Joe Gordon
    3. Gavvy Cravath
    4. Tim Browning
    5. Dick Allen
    6. Harry Stovey
    7. Ed Reulbach
    8. Ron Santo
    9. Goose Gossage
    10. Deacon Phillippe
    "Simply put, the passion, interest and tradition surrounding baseball in New York is unmatched."

    Sean McAdam, ESPN.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ElHalo
      4. Tim Browning
      Can I assume you mean Pete Browning, not Tom Browning?
      Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

      Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

      Comment


      • #4
        Can I participate here even if I didn't participate in the Hall of Mistakes series of threads?
        THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

        In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

        Comment


        • #5
          We're going to see big variations on our lists here.....

          1.Dick Allen
          2.Ron Santo
          3.Jimmy Wynn
          4.Bobby Grich
          5.Bert Blyleven
          6.Bobby Bonds
          7.Alan Trammell
          8.Sal Bando
          9.Sherry Magee
          10.Heinie Groh
          Last edited by 538280; 04-05-2006, 01:19 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            1. Ron Santo
            2. Dick Allen
            3. Bert Blyleven
            4. Alan Trammell
            5. Minnie Minoso
            6. Goose Gossage
            7. Ken Boyer
            8. Sherry Magee
            9. Bobby Grich
            10. Bill Dahlen
            "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
            "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
            "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
            "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

            Comment


            • #7
              1.Ron Santo
              2.Dick Allen
              3.Sherry Magee
              4.Gavvy Cravath
              5.Ted Simmons
              6.Bert Blyleven
              7.Minnie Minoso
              8.Joe Gordon
              9.Albert Belle
              10.Goose Gossage
              AL East Champions: 1981 1982
              AL Pennant: 1982
              NL Central Champions: 2011
              NL Wild Card: 2008

              "It was like coming this close to your dreams and then watching them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. At the time you don't think much of it; you know, we just don't recognize the significant moments of our lives while they're happening. Back then I thought, 'Well, there'll be other days.' I didn't realize that that was the only day." - Moonlight Graham

              Comment


              • #8
                1) Santo
                2) Minoso
                3) Ted Simmons
                4) Gossage
                5) Blyleven
                6) Trammell
                7) Kieth Hernandez
                8) Dale Murphy
                9) Dawson
                10) Gordon
                --note: I don't consider "best player" and "most deserving Hall of Famer" to always be the same thing. Having something extra on your resume has value to me as well, i.e. Minoso - first Black Latin, Gossage - best reliever ever, Hernandez - best defensive 1B ever. Living players also get the edge over those no longer with us. Best player is the single most important criteria, of course, but not the only one.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't know exactly how to rank them but I'd include
                  Allen
                  Blyleven
                  Gossage
                  Torre
                  Grich
                  Darrell Evans or Ron Santo
                  Dahlen
                  SMagee
                  Dawson
                  Dwight Evans
                  Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                  Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by digglahhh
                    Can I participate here even if I didn't participate in the Hall of Mistakes series of threads?
                    Absolutely! I always say, the more ballots, the better the results.
                    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RuthMayBond
                      I don't know exactly how to rank them but I'd include
                      Allen
                      Blyleven
                      Gossage
                      Torre
                      Grich
                      Darrell Evans or Ron Santo
                      Dahlen
                      SMagee
                      Dawson
                      Dwight Evans
                      I would encourage you to take a shot at ranking your top ten. If not ranked, it will be hard for me to include your ballot in the vote tally. And I don't allow any ties on ballots.

                      Here's an approach that might help. Decide on your ten guys. Then break them into three groups: top 3, middle 3, bottom 4. Then, rank them within these groups - roll dice, flip a coin, just rank 'em.
                      Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                      Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RuthMayBond
                        I don't know exactly how to rank them but I guess I'll go with
                        1) Dick Allen
                        2) Blyleven
                        3) Torre
                        4) Grich
                        5) SMagee
                        6) Darrell Evans
                        7) Dahlen
                        8) Dawson
                        9) Dwight Evans
                        10) Gossage
                        Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                        Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          One question: are Japanese players eligible for consideration?

                          A comment: "Hall of Corrections" sounds like a state government name for a prison--I'd suggest a different name.

                          Jim Albright
                          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1. Pete Browning
                            2. Bert Blyleven
                            3. Ron Santo
                            4. Minnie Minoso
                            5. Tommy Bridges
                            6. Rich Gossage
                            7. Allan Trammell
                            8. Lou Whitaker
                            9. Mike Tiernan
                            10. Quisenberry

                            I think we are making the same mistake as plagued the original HoF balloters. We are considering way too many players and this will lead, once again, to the 19th century guys being passed by.
                            Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KCGHOST
                              1. Pete Browning
                              2. Bert Blyleven
                              3. Ron Santo
                              4. Minnie Minoso
                              5. Tommy Bridges
                              6. Rich Gossage
                              7. Allan Trammell
                              8. Lou Whitaker
                              9. Mike Tiernan
                              10. Quisenberry

                              I think we are making the same mistake as plagued the original HoF balloters. We are considering way too many players and this will lead, once again, to the 19th century guys being passed by.
                              Who decides what is "too many players"? Tiernan wasn't much better if any than Strawberry and is almost certainly didn't have as good a career as DwEvans, Staub, Dawson, ReSmith, JClark, Parker, Baines, BoBonds, Singleton ...
                              Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                              Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X