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The Hall of Corrections, Election #2

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  • #16
    1. Alan Trammell
    2. Minnie Minoso
    3. Goose Gossage
    4. Ken Boyer
    5. Sherry Magee
    6. Bobby Grich
    7. Bill Dahlen
    8. Paul Hines
    9. Joe Gordon
    10. Deacon White
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

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    • #17
      Originally posted by RuthMayBond
      <Arguably the greatest player of his era at his prime>

      I hear Ross Barnes knocking
      Pearce was 14 years older than Barnes, so they are not quite of the same era.

      Here is Pearce's writeup from BBLibrary:

      One of baseball's most famous early players, Pearce broke in with the Brooklyn Atlantics in 1856. He and James Creighton were probably the two earliest players to be paid. A brilliant fielder, Pearce is generally given credit for molding the shortstop's play into its present form. A good hitter, and fast, he was legendary for introducing and mastering his "tricky hit," known today as the bunt. For much of his career, the rules permitted it to roll foul and still be a hit.

      Pearce played professionally for 22 years, spanning the generation from the game's beginnings to the National League. The St. Louis Times, June 30, 1868, applauded Pearce, summarizing his contributions : "Pearce has been noted as a superior shortstop for ten years and to-day has no equal in the base ball field. He bats with great judgment and safety..." Following his playing days, he umpired into the mid-1880s.
      Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

      Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Freakshow
        RMB--

        Your additions to the candidates list are all solid players, certainly. Though I could be wrong, I don't think any of them is a serious candidate for election by our group.
        I just don't know why they would be any LESS so than the ones I replaced

        <I also think you would do well to reconsider Paul Hines. If you need any info on him, just ask the voters at the BBFHOF, who elected him in December.>

        He's probably next on that list, and I understand most everyobdy is a rate guy, but a kinda short career in a not-so-great league
        Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
        Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by RuthMayBond
          I just don't know why they would be any LESS so than the ones I replaced

          <I also think you would do well to reconsider Paul Hines. If you need any info on him, just ask the voters at the BBFHOF, who elected him in December.>

          He's probably next on that list, and I understand most everyobdy is a rate guy, but a kinda short career in a not-so-great league
          The 100 player list was never intended to be my or anyone’s personal list of the best hundred candidates. It incorporates a number of different views as to who the top candidates are, so to give voters a starting point. The aim was to capture anyone who could be a possible choice by our group. This is probably an impossible task, as it pretends to know the composition of the electorate down the line, which really isn’t possible.

          So, sure, there’s no huge difference between your guys and mine, in most cases. Anyone is free to modify and tinker with the list to suit their own criteria, and I would expect most voters are doing just that. All our lists will have differences at the margins. Later in the project especially, these marginal differences should be a source for discussion and debate.

          As for Hines, his career was extremely long, 20 years total with 18 as a full-time regular. Adjust his career for schedule length and he has well over 3000 hits. He was a superstar in the best leagues that existed.

          Only if you make the mistake of punishing him for being born too soon is Hines not a deserving hall of famer.
          Last edited by Freakshow; 04-10-2006, 11:12 AM.
          Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

          Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Freakshow
            The 100 player list was never intended to be my or anyone’s personal list of the best hundred candidates. It incorporates a number of different views as to who the top candidates are, so to give voters a starting point. The aim was to capture anyone who could be a possible choice by our group.
            That would explain some things, but there may be more possible choices

            <As for Hines, his career was extremely long, 20 years total with 18 as a full-time regular.>

            Sorry, I was referring to plate apps

            <Adjust his career for schedule length and he has well over 3000 hits.>

            I'm not sure it can be done in a linear fashion but whatever

            <He was a superstar in the best leagues that existed.

            Only if you make the mistake of punishing him for being born too soon is Hines not a deserving hall of famer.>

            Which was the best league that existed from 1920-1947, the major leagues or the Negro Leagues? Ok, enough of that but now I wonder about the 1840 leagues. And I'm still wondering about some of the Pearce claims
            Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
            Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

            Comment


            • #21
              1. M. Minoso
              2. K. Hernandez
              3. J. Torre
              4. G. Gossage
              5. A. Belle
              6. S. Magee
              7. D. Murphy
              8. B. Bonds
              9. P. Browning
              10. A. Trammell
              THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

              In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

              Comment


              • #22
                1) Minnie Minoso
                2) Ted Simmons
                3) Goose Gossage
                4) Alan trammell
                5) Kieth Hernandez
                6) Dale Murphy
                7) Andre Dawson
                8) Joe Gordon
                9) Sherry Magee
                10) Paul Hines

                Comment


                • #23
                  1.Jimmy Wynn
                  2.Bobby Grich
                  3.Minnie Minoso
                  4.Bobby Bonds
                  5.Alan Trammell
                  6.Goose Gossage
                  7.Sherry Magee
                  8.Heinie Groh
                  9.Sal Bando
                  10.Wally Berger
                  Next Up: Lee Smith, Joe Torre, Dave Parker, Ted Simmons, Joe Gordon, Dan Quisenberry
                  Last edited by 538280; 04-10-2006, 05:38 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by RuthMayBond
                    I'm sorry, you have to defend the pathetic nomination of Dickey Pearce.
                    Career slugging, .276.
                    Number of full seasons, five.
                    Number of 30+ RBI years, zero.
                    OPS+, 78.
                    Career RBI, 137.
                    Years after 1877, zero.
                    Sneaking him in the Hall, priceless
                    Dang, I left Hodges on
                    Pearce was elected to the BTF Hall of Merit. His stat line isn't so impressive the way we look at it, but he was supposed to be an awesome fielder when fielding was probably about 80% of defense, and he was a great player before our statistical base begins in 1871. Look at his birth year. He was born in 1836, he was 35 years old in 1871. You're only seeing his decline phase on the BBRef page. He was one of the best (if not the best) player in the country during the 1850s and 1860s.

                    I'm not knowledgable enough on Pearce to say whether the BTF guys made a good selection, but they are very intelligent and tend to make very, very sound selections on the whole so I'm willing to go with their conclusion that Pearce was a truly great player.

                    Here's a link with some good discussion on Pearce (just use the "find in top window" feature and you'll find the discussion, because it's included in there with discussions of various other players):

                    http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/...ot_discussion/

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 538280
                      Pearce was elected to the BTF Hall of Merit. His stat line isn't so impressive the way we look at it, but he was supposed to be an awesome fielder when fielding was probably about 80% of defense, and he was a great player before our statistical base begins in 1871. Look at his birth year. He was born in 1836, he was 35 years old in 1871. You're only seeing his decline phase on the BBRef page. He was one of the best (if not the best) player in the country during the 1850s and 1860s.
                      I'm guessing this must be eyewitnesses (which are OK, if there's enough, and a general consensus). But a lot of people seriously downgrade players in the 1890s. How much more so in the 1850s?
                      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                      Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        1. Goose Gossage
                        2. Bill Dahlen
                        3. Minnie Minnoso
                        4. Sherry Magee
                        5. Tony Mullane
                        6. Pete Browning
                        7. Ted Simmons
                        8. Alan Trammel
                        9. Albert Belle
                        10. Dale Murphy

                        11. Bobby Grich
                        12. Andre Dawson
                        13. Dave Parker
                        14. Luis Tiant
                        15. Ken Boyer
                        16. Joe Gordon
                        17. Carl Mays
                        18. Keith Hernandez
                        19. Jimmy Wynn
                        20. George Van Haltren
                        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          1.Sherry Magee
                          2.Gavvy Cravath
                          3.Ted Simmons
                          4.Minnie Minoso
                          5.Joe Gordon
                          6.Albert Belle
                          7.Goose Gossage
                          8.Bobby Grich
                          9.Stan Hack
                          10.Carl Mays
                          AL East Champions: 1981 1982
                          AL Pennant: 1982
                          NL Central Champions: 2011
                          NL Wild Card: 2008

                          "It was like coming this close to your dreams and then watching them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. At the time you don't think much of it; you know, we just don't recognize the significant moments of our lives while they're happening. Back then I thought, 'Well, there'll be other days.' I didn't realize that that was the only day." - Moonlight Graham

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            1. Jim Rice
                            2. Gil Hodges
                            3. Joe Wood
                            4. Luis Tiant
                            5. Dan Quisenberry
                            6. Rocky Colovito
                            7. Craig Nettles
                            8. Ken Boyer
                            9. Bert Campaneris
                            10. Dave Concepcion

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              1.Sherry Magee
                              2.Minnie Minoso
                              3.Albert Belle
                              4.Gavvy Cravath
                              5.Pete Browning
                              6.Goose Gossage
                              7.Bill Dahlen
                              8.Alan Trammell
                              9.Joe Gordon
                              10.Carl Mays

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                1.Sherry Magee
                                2.Alan Tramell
                                3.Albert Belle
                                4.Goose Gossage
                                5.Keith Hernandez
                                6.Minnie Minoso
                                7.Gavvy Cravath
                                8.Pete Browning
                                9.Carl Mays
                                10.Joe Gordon

                                Comment

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