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  • #16
    So, many of you feel that some players are disadvantaged by their home park more so than others are. Are there some players who have a unique ability to take advantage of their home park. If they have an ability to thrive is that not something they should be given credit for.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by NOMAR22
      Ahead of Reggie Jackson? Ha! .that shows how much you know about baseball.
      Not as much as you, right?
      "Hall of Famer Whitey Ford now on the field... pleading with the crowd for, for some kind of sanity!"

      Comment


      • #18
        question little off topic but I did not want to start new thread

        Going through this thread I have seen more then one person say, "I dont think he cracks my top 50." Along with a few, "I dont think he cracks my top 50 but he is in my top 100."

        Lemme get this straight, are you guys saying you have a top 50 of all time? or is this just a figure of speech? Myself I cant even peg a top five of all time. Although here goes (likely to change upon further reflection or whos stats I am looking at in a given moment.

        1.Babe Ruth
        2.-5. (in no particular order) Ty Cobb, Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, Cy Young, Walter Johnson*

        *I know theres one extra thats my point

        To the fellow with the Ty Cobb quote as his singed line. You might consider that was back in the days when Coke had cocaine in it?

        Comment


        • #19
          --I think many of us actually do have a top 50. In fact, there are several active threads related to top 50s going right now.

          Comment


          • #20
            Very many of us have top 50s, some (including myself) even have a top 100. Here's my top 100 right here actually, to get you started if you need some help making yours:

            1.Willie Mays
            2.Babe Ruth
            3.Barry Bonds
            4.Mike Schmidt
            5.Hank Aaron
            6.Oscar Charleston
            7.Honus Wagner
            8.Mickey Mantle
            9.Ted Williams
            10.Ty Cobb
            11.Josh Gibson
            12.Joe Morgan
            13.Rickey Henderson
            14.Stan Musial
            15.Lou Gehring
            16.Tris Speaker
            17.Eddie Collins
            18.Frank Robinson
            19.Johnny Bench
            20.Pop Lloyd
            21.Rogers Hornsby
            22.Arky Vaughan
            23.Christobal Torriente
            24.Eddie Mathews
            25.Reggie Jackson
            26.Alex Rodriguez
            27.Jimmie Foxx
            28.Joe DiMaggio
            29.Frank Thomas
            30.Jeff Bagwell
            31.Jackie Robinson
            32.George Brett
            33.Turkey Stearnes
            34.Mel Ott
            35.Pete Rose
            36.Yogi Berra
            37.Nap Lajoie
            38.Tony Gwynn
            39.Tim Raines
            40.Cal Ripken
            41.Willie McCovey
            42.Robin Yount
            43.Charlie Gehringer
            44.Sam Crawford
            45.Gary Sheffield
            46.Mike Piazza
            47.Carl Yastrzemski
            48.Wade Boggs
            49.Mickey Cochrane
            50.Willie Stargell
            51.Carlton Fisk
            52.Dick Allen
            53.Al Kaline
            54.Roberto Clemente
            55.Barry Larkin
            56.Eddie Murray
            57.Johnny Mize
            58.Ron Santo
            59.Billy Williams
            60.Dave Winfield
            61.Frank Baker
            62.Harmon Killebrew
            63.Ed Delahanty
            64.Biz Mackey
            65.Gary Carter
            66.Martin Dihigo
            67.Al Simmons
            68.Jimmy Wynn
            69.Bobby Grich
            70.Ray Dandridge
            71.Roger Connor
            72.Craig Biggio
            73.Ken Griffey Jr.
            74.Roy Campanella
            75.Duke Snider
            76.Bobby Bonds
            77.Dan Brouthers
            78.Sal Bando
            79.Joe Jackson
            80.Rod Carew
            81.Bill Dickey
            82.Willard Brown
            83.Joe Torre
            84.Larry Doby
            85.Paul Waner
            86.Roberto Alomar
            87.Will Clark
            88.Joe Medwick
            89.Billy Hamilton
            90.Ernie Banks
            91.Kirby Puckett
            92.Goose Goslin
            93.Hank Greenberg
            94.Sherry Magee
            95.Willie Wells
            96.Paul Molitor
            97.Wally Berger
            98.Cesar Cedeno
            99.Jimmy Collins
            100.Luke Appling
            Last edited by 538280; 05-12-2006, 08:22 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by 538280
              Very many of us have top 50s, some (including myself) even have a top 100. Here's my top 100 right here actually, to get you started if you need some help making yours:

              1.Willie Mays
              2.Babe Ruth
              3.Barry Bonds
              4.Mike Schmidt
              5.Hank Aaron
              6.Oscar Charleston
              7.Honus Wagner
              8.Mickey Mantle
              9.Ted Williams
              10.Ty Cobb
              11.Josh Gibson
              12.Joe Morgan
              13.Lou Gehrig
              14.Eickey Henderson
              15.Tris Speaker
              16.Eddie Collins
              17.Stan Musial
              18.Frank Robinson
              19.Pop Lloyd
              20.Johnny Bench
              21.Rogers Hornsby
              22.Arky Vaughan
              23.Christobal Torriente
              24.Eddie Mathews
              25.Reggie Jackson
              26.Alex Rodriguez
              27.Jimmie Foxx
              28.Joe DiMaggio
              29.Frank Thomas
              30.Jeff Bagwell
              31.Jackie Robinson
              32.George Brett
              33.Turkey Stearnes
              34.Mel Ott
              35.Pete Rose
              36.Yogi Berra
              37.Nap Lajoie
              38.Tony Gwynn
              39.Tim Raines
              40.Ron Santo
              41.Willie McCovey
              42.Robin Yount
              43.Charlie Gehringer
              44.Sam Crawford
              45.Gary Sheffield
              46.Mike Piazza
              47.Carl Yastrzemski
              48.Wade Boggs
              49.Mickey Cochrane
              50.Willie Stargell
              51.Johnny Mize
              52.Dick Allen
              53.Al Kaline
              54.Roberto Clemente
              55.Barry Larkin
              56.Eddie Murray
              57.Carlton Fisk
              58.Dave Winfield
              59.Cal Ripken
              60.Billy Williams
              61.Frank Baker
              62.Harmon Killebrew
              63.Ed Delahanty
              64.Biz Mackey
              65.Gary Carter
              66.Martin Dihigo
              67.Al Simmons
              68.Jimmy Wynn
              69.Bobby Grich
              70.Ray Dandridge
              71.Roger Connor
              72.Craig Biggio
              73.Ken Griffey Jr.
              74.Roy Campanella
              75.Duke Snider
              76.Bobby Bonds
              77.Dan Brouthers
              78.Sal Bando
              79.Joe Jackson
              80.Rod Carew
              81.Bill Dickey
              82.Willard Brown
              83.Joe Torre
              84.Larry Doby
              85.Paul Waner
              86.Roberto Alomar
              87.Will Clark
              88.Joe Medwick
              89.Billy Hamilton
              90.Ernie Banks
              91.Kirby Puckett
              92.Goose Goslin
              93.Hank Greenberg
              94.Sherry Magee
              95.Willie Wells
              96.Paul Molitor
              97.Wally Berger
              98.Cesar Cedeno
              99.Jimmy Collins
              100.Luke Appling
              Ty Cobb is at least 4 spots to low read Al Stumps book Btw Babe Ruth is number 1 for crissakes he won damn near 100 games in 5 years as a pitcher. I just started spinning after your top ten? wheres Cy Young? I just doubled checked NOWHERE. ....Time to revamp your list BTW whys Mike Schmidt so high?
              Last edited by tigers527; 04-15-2006, 07:22 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by tigers527
                Ty Cobb is at least 4 spots to low read Al Stumps book Btw Babe Ruth is number 1 for crissakes he won damn near 100 games in 5 years as a pitcher. I just started spinning after your top ten? wheres Cy Young? I just doubled checked NOWHERE. ....Time to revamp your list BTW whys Mike Schmidt so high?
                That's only position players, so Cy Young is of course nowhere to be found. I have him 5th amongst pitchers.

                Cobb has been a bit overrated by history IMO, he played in a weak league and didn't really dominate his league quite like Ruth, Mays, Mantle, Wagner, Bonds, or even Schmidt

                Schmidt was the best player in his league 8 times, the same amount as Ruth and I believe 3rd all time behind only Ruth and Mantle. He didn't separate quite as much from the pack as those guys, but to me that tells more about the strength of the league he played in than that he wasn't as good. 70s/80s players generally are horribly underrated because of that.

                I have Mays over Ruth with a combination of fielding, league quality and longevity. Basically Ruth is a better hitter but not as much as a quick look at the stats would suggest, and Mays is better in just about every other category, plus he played in a fully integrated, fully devolped league.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Here is my current top 100 positioned players

                  100. Kirby Puckett
                  99. Sam Thompson
                  98. Willie Keeler
                  97. Manny Ramirez
                  96. Joe Cronin
                  95. George Davis
                  94. Robin Yount
                  93. Frankie Frisch
                  92. Ryne Sandberg
                  91. Ozzie Smith
                  90. Gary Carter
                  89. Luke Appling
                  88. Carlton Fisk
                  87. Ron Santo
                  86. Christobel Torriente
                  85. Frank Baker
                  84. Willie Wells
                  83. Craig Biggio
                  82. Paul Molitor
                  81. Jesse Burkett
                  80. Gabby Hartnett
                  79. Joe Medwick
                  78. Pie Traynor
                  77. Buck Ewing
                  76. Brooks Robinson
                  75. Paul Waner
                  74. Mike Piazza
                  73. Goose Goslin
                  72. Bill Dickey
                  71. Ernie Banks
                  70. Willie McCovey
                  69. Willie Stargell
                  68. Dave Winfield
                  67. Roberto Alomar
                  66. Reggie Jackson
                  65. Harmon Killebrew
                  64. Roger Connors
                  63. Rod Carew
                  62. Frank Thomas
                  61. Ivan Rodriguez
                  60. Buck Leonard
                  59. Duke Snider
                  58. Wade Boggs
                  57. Billy Hamilton
                  56. Eddie Murray
                  55. Jeff Bagwell
                  54. Cool Papa Bell
                  53. Johnny Mize
                  52. Al Kaline
                  51. Roy Campanella
                  50. Arkie Vaughn
                  49. Al Kaline
                  48. Turkey Sterns
                  47. Pete Rose
                  46. Jackie Robinson
                  45. Mickey Cochrane
                  44. Harry Heilmann
                  43. Sam Crawford
                  42. George Sisler
                  41. Eddie Mathews
                  40. Cal Ripken Jr.
                  39. Ken Griffey Jr.
                  38. Tony Gwynn
                  37. Charlie Gehringer
                  36. Carl Yastremzki
                  35. George Brett
                  34. Hank Greenberg
                  33. Al Simmons
                  32. Martin Dihigo
                  31. Pop Lloyd
                  30. Joe Morgan
                  29. Yogi Berra
                  28. Ed Delehanty
                  27. Alex Rodriguez
                  26. Joe Jackson
                  25. Cap Anson
                  24. Mel Ott
                  23. Nap Lajoie
                  22. Rickey Henderson
                  21. Dan Brouthers
                  20. Frank Robinson
                  19. Johnny Bench
                  18. Mike Schmidt
                  17. Joe DiMaggio
                  16. Oscar Charleston
                  15. Jimmie Foxx
                  14. Eddie Collins
                  13. Barry Bonds
                  12. Tris Speaker
                  11. Mickey Mantle
                  10. Josh Gibson
                  9 Rogers Hornsby
                  8. Stan Musial
                  7. Hank Aaron
                  6. Lou Gehrig
                  5. Honus Wagner
                  4. Ted Williams
                  3. Willie Mays
                  2. Ty Cobb
                  1. Babe Ruth
                  Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 04-15-2006, 10:00 AM.
                  1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                  1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                  1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                  The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                  The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Most members seperate positioned players from pitchers. A few members have up to 200 pitchers ranked. I have a top 100, but I am going through some changes towards the bottom. Here is my top 50.



                    1. Walter Johnson
                    2. Cy Young
                    3. Lefty Grove
                    4. Roger Clemens
                    5. Christie Mathewson
                    6. Pete Alexander
                    7. Greg Maddux
                    8. Warren Spahn
                    9. Tom Seaver
                    10. Satchel Paige
                    11. Randy Johnson
                    12. Kid Nichols
                    13. Bob Gibson
                    14. Pedro Martinez
                    15. Bob Feller
                    16. Carl Hubbell
                    17. Mordeci Brown
                    18. Steve Carlton
                    19. Whitey Ford
                    20. Jim Palmer
                    21. Juan Marichal
                    22. Sandy Koufax
                    23. John Clarkson
                    24. Eddie Plank
                    25. Joe Williams
                    26. Tim Keefe
                    27. Ed Walsh
                    28. Gaylord Perry
                    29. Nolan Ryan
                    30. Robin Roberts
                    31. Joe Rogan
                    32. Dennis Eckersley
                    33. Bert Blyleven
                    34. Hoyt Wilhelm
                    35. Rube Waddell
                    36. Fergie Jenkins
                    37. Joe McGinnity
                    38. Phil Niekro
                    39. Tom Glavine
                    40. Charles Radbourn
                    41. Addie Joss
                    42. Stan Coveleski
                    43. Mariano Rivera
                    44. Hal Newhouser
                    45. Dazzy Vance
                    46. Don Drysdale
                    47. Amos Rusie
                    48. Goose Gossage
                    49. Don Sutton
                    50. Bob Lemon
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      --I separate pitcher from position players and can't rank nearly as far with pitchers. Too many of them are very close in achievement. There is also the complication of comparign great peak, short career pitchers with pitchers of lesser skill, but much greater career achievment. There are some shooting stars amoung position players, but it is far more common amoung pitchers and I think you have to be at least a little more forgiving of pitchers who break down earlier.
                      --If Koufax was a posiiton player of similar career path he wouldn't make my top 50, but he is top 20 amoung pitchers. Vance and Newhouser rank in the 20s for me and might not be top 100 if they had the same pattern as position players.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by NOMAR22
                        Ahead of Reggie Jackson? Ha! .that shows how much you know about baseball.
                        Agree with me or disagree with me (I'm sure that almost everyone but Bill Burgess would disagree with me at that particular point), but I can pretty much guarantee you that I know more about baseball than you do, and that pretty much everyone here would agree with me on that.
                        "Simply put, the passion, interest and tradition surrounding baseball in New York is unmatched."

                        Sean McAdam, ESPN.com

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          --Not setting the bar very high for yourself there, Jim .
                          --Nomar, you'll find this a friendlier place if you try and add something of value to the discussion and not just insult other people's opinions. In this case I agree with your conclusion, but I hope for both more substance and civility from those who take my side of an issue.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by KCGHOST
                            Goslin was a fine player who, unfortunately, played half his career in a very tough ballpark and played in a time of mega-stars.
                            Goslin suffers from being a Washington Senator, a team that no longer exists; it died twice.

                            Goslin also suffers from being inducted into the HOF with Heinie Manush and Kiki Cuyler, both of whom are criticized picks. Goslin was better than both of them.
                            "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

                            NL President Ford Frick, 1947

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by leecemark View Post
                              --Goslin has been largely forgotten. A little surprising given his catchy nickname, key role on 5 pennant winners (including all 3 in Senators history) and his overall outstanding play. Had he played any place but Griffith Stadium he would have hit alot more HR, but he managed to drive home a ton of runs with doubles and triples anyway. He was a very good defensive player as well.
                              --In the Buckerfoot Al thread I mentioned Goslin earlier today as one of 8 LFers who could rank anywhere from 8-15 all time at the position. Even if you put him at the top of that group its going to leave him out of the top 50. If he is closer to the bottom he doesn't even make the top 100. We may have the chance to slot him in one of those groups soon. Check out the thread Ranking the Legends to see if you'd be interested in doing that.
                              I've got him at 14 with Simmons at 13. 12 is Fred Clarke and 11 is Tim Raines.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I've always considered Goslin to be a poor man's Al Simmons. Perhaps this isn't really fair, as they are not really that far apart. A middle class man's Al Simmons maybe? Does anyone rank Goslin ahead?

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