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  • Top 50 position players

    Originally posted by DoubleX
    Just out of curiosity, could you list who you think are the say 50 greatest players ever (don't worry about exact order)?
    I'll do the top 50 position players in history. In alphabetical order

    Hank Aaron
    Cap Anson
    Harold Baines
    Ernie Banks
    Craig Biggio
    Barry Bonds
    George Brett
    Roberto Clemente
    Ty Cobb
    Eddie Collins
    Sam Crawford
    Andre Dawson
    Jimmie Foxx
    Lou Gehrig
    Goose Goslin
    Ken Griffey Jr
    Tony Gwynn
    Rickey Henderson
    Rogers Hornsby
    Reggie Jackson
    Al Kaline
    Nap Lajoie
    Mickey Mantle
    Eddie Mathews
    Willie Mays
    Fred McGriff
    Paul Molitor
    Eddie Murray
    Stan Musial
    Mel Ott
    Rafael Palmeiro
    Dave Perker
    Tony Perez
    Vada Pinson
    Cal Ripken
    Brooks Robinson
    Frank Robinson
    Pete Rose
    Babe Ruth
    Mike Schmidt
    Al Simmons
    Sammy Sosa
    Tris Speaker
    Honus Wagner
    Paul Waner
    Billy Williams
    Ted Williams
    Dave Winfield
    Carl Yastrzemski
    Robin Yount
    My dream ballpark dimensions
    LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
    RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
    Location....San Diego

  • #2
    interesting list, i find baines and pinson to be your most questionable selections...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sockeye
      I'll do the top 50 position players in history. In alphabetical order

      Harold Baines
      Fred McGriff
      Tony Perez
      Vada Pinson
      Brooks Robinson
      Sammy Sosa
      Let's just say these are iffy
      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
      Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

      Comment


      • #4
        also, strangely, there are no true catchers on this list... no bench, berra, etc? and how about joe morgan?
        Last edited by oscargamblesfro; 04-12-2006, 08:49 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by RuthMayBond
          Let's just say these are iffy
          Add Andre Dawson to that list.

          Dawson > Yogi Berra?
          Last edited by iPod; 04-12-2006, 09:26 AM.
          "Hall of Famer Whitey Ford now on the field... pleading with the crowd for, for some kind of sanity!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by iPod
            Add Andre Dawson to that list.
            I was strongly considering him for the list too. I gotta admit, Sockeye keeps getting off the ground and back onto the horse
            Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
            Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

            Comment


            • #7
              Al Kaline's on your list. He's on mine too, but I didn't think you thought much of Kaline (or maybe it's the opposite and it's that you think that much of Beltre).

              Not a bad list though, there are some players that that stick out a bit. I don't think these players would make my top 50, but to each their own:

              Harold Baines - He's probably in my top 250, maybe even top 200.

              Craig Biggio - I don't begrudge this too much. Bill James seems to think Biggio is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He's in my top 100.

              Andre Dawson - This is almost certainly too high for him. I could see arguments for him in the top 100, he's certainly no worse than top 150, IMO (but I'm sure there are many here who might put him even lower).

              Goose Goslin - I like this pick because Goslin is too often overlooked, but it still seems a bit high. He's in my top 100.

              Fred McGriff - Solid player for a long time, but not top 50. Top 150 is probably more appropriate.

              Paul Molitor - Maybe top 100, if so it's borderline top 100. Being a DH really depressed his value, IMO.

              Rafael Palmeiro - No way, especially after the steroids revelation.

              Dave Parker - Ask someone in 1978 about Dave Parker and they might say he is well on his way to be a top 50 talent. Didn't play out that way though. I can see him in top 150.

              Tony Perez - You're really liking these 1Bman compilers, aren't you? Perez is top 150 probably for me. I don't understand how Palmeiro, McGriff, and Perez can be on this list, but not McCovey, Killebrew, Allen, McGwire, and Terry.

              Vada Pinson - He was well on his way and then just dropped off by 28. Might be top 200 for me.

              Brooks Robinson - Great defense, but not enough offense to get into top 50. Top 100 probably.

              Sammy Sosa - Nope. Totally one-dimensional player, his HR totals are not so much of a symbol of his talent as his era and likely using certain illegal supplements.

              Billy Williams - Probably a little high for him. Top 100.

              Dave Winfield - Ditto.

              Comment


              • #8
                --I only got 3 players into your list before seeing enough to convince me that going further would be a waste of time. Harold freaking Baines one of the top 50 players of all time? He isn't even close to being one of the 50 best players of my lifetime. Baines was a fairly good hitter for a long time, but never a great one. Most of his career he had zero defensive value and was a below average to poor baserunner.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Abstractly, the top 5 at each position would make for 40 players. Add ten at-large position players and there's your top 50.

                  Where do you rank Harold Baines among right fielders? Surely not in the top 5?
                  "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                  "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                  "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                  "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hank Aaron
                    Cap Anson
                    Jeff Bagwell
                    Ernie Banks
                    Johnny Bench
                    Yogi Berra
                    Barry Bonds
                    Wade Boggs
                    George Brett
                    Rod Carew
                    Oscar Charleston
                    Roberto Clemente
                    Ty Cobb
                    Eddie Collins
                    Sam Crawford
                    Ed Delahanty
                    Joe DiMaggio
                    Jimmie Foxx
                    Loh Gehrig
                    Josh Gibson
                    Ken Griffey Jr
                    Tony Gwynn
                    Rickey Henderson
                    Rogers Hornsby
                    Joe Jackson
                    Al Kaline
                    Nap Lajoie
                    John Henry Lloyd
                    Mickey Mantle
                    Eddie Mathews
                    Willie Mays
                    Willie McCovey
                    Joe Morgan
                    Stan Musial
                    Mike Piazza
                    Tim Raines
                    Cal Ripken Jr
                    Frank Robinson
                    Jackie Robinson
                    Alex Rodriguez
                    Ivan Rodriguez
                    Babe Ruth
                    Mike Schmidt
                    Tris Speaker
                    Frank Thomas
                    Arky Vaughan
                    Honus Wagner
                    Ted Williams
                    Carl Yastrzemski
                    Robin Yount

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sockeye,

                      The no catcher thing has already been mentioned.

                      No A-Rod?
                      THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

                      In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        General question here:

                        We see Frank Thomas appear on a lot of these top 50 lists. But rarely do we see Manny Ramirez.

                        Both of these guys are pushing for spots solely with their bats. Thomas is a crappy defensive 1B who has DHed for the second half of his career.

                        Manny is an awful defensive LF.

                        Now, Thomas has the peak edge on Manny and he's still played more games with a higher OPS+, though a lower raw OPS. Thomas does have the OBP edge, which is considered the more important component of the metric.

                        But hasn't Manny's consistency offset Frank's peak at this point?

                        Some people bring up the MVP thing. But truthfully Manny's lack of an MVP is a function of the fact that he is always splitting the vote with teammates.

                        Also it seems pretty clear that Manny has some more productive years ahead of him, while Frank is playing out the string.
                        THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

                        In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by digglahhh
                          General question here:

                          We see Frank Thomas appear on a lot of these top 50 lists. But rarely do we see Manny Ramirez.

                          Both of these guys are pushing for spots solely with their bats. Thomas is a crappy defensive 1B who has DHed for the second half of his career.

                          Manny is an awful defensive LF.

                          Now, Thomas has the peak edge on Manny and he's still played more games with a higher OPS+, though a lower raw OPS. Thomas does have the OBP edge, which is considered the more important component of the metric.

                          But hasn't Manny's consistency offset Frank's peak at this point?

                          Some people bring up the MVP thing. But truthfully Manny's lack of an MVP is a function of the fact that he is always splitting the vote with teammates.

                          Also it seems pretty clear that Manny has some more productive years ahead of him, while Frank is playing out the string.
                          I agree. I think Manny's career is generally underrated. Thomas' OPS+ is 161 while Manny's is 156. And Manny, while a bad fielder, has played field his entire career. So I think you definitely have a good point.

                          A few things that might cause Thomas to be further ahead are...

                          - The MVPs, as you mentioned. Two for Thomas, none for Manny.

                          - Thomas was putting Ted Williams like numbers just before explosion in the mid and late 90s. Manny came during that time, so there might be a subconscious bias against his numbers, whereas Thomas' numbers in the early 90s were especially mind-boggling given the levels of offense we had been accustomed to in the 60s-80s.

                          - Manny's been extremely consistent, but his peak is not quite as impressive as Thomas' (which also factors in the above point of Thomas being at his best before the explosion in the mid 90s).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            --Thomas is ahead of Ramirez even though he has played longer and experienced some decline. Manny has some good years left in him, but does anybody think he is going to improve his rates over the rest of his career? I suppose its possible he'll end up with a better career than Thomas, but I wouldn't bet on it and I surely wouldn't rank him ahead now.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I personally have Frank Thomas as my 4th best 1Bman all-time, good for 38th for position players, Manny, I do have in my top 100, at 86th, as my 10th best Left-fielder, very good, but still a far cry from Thomas. Now if he was a decent fielder, I could see it closer, but he certainly is not, he is just as much of a defensive liablility as Thomas is/was, so no help for him there.

                              Top 10 LF'ers:

                              1. Ted Williams
                              2. Stan Musial
                              3. Barry Bonds
                              4. Ed Delahanty
                              5. Rickey Henderson
                              6. Joe Jackson
                              7. Carl Yastrzemski
                              8. Al Simmons
                              9. Billy Williams
                              10. Manny Ramirez

                              Comment

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