Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

First Ballot Selections

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • First Ballot Selections

    The HOF "Class of 1962" was the first to enter the Hall after the mandatory five-year-wait rule went into effect. Since then, a First Ballot Selection has been widely viewed as the Supreme Test of worthiness -- the Cream of the Cream.

    For players inducted in 1962 or later, how do you compare First Ballot Sections with those voted in later (or even by a Veteran's Committee)?

    Here is my cut of an All-Star Roster made up of First Ballot Selectees:
    1B - Willie McCovey (or Stan Musial?)
    2b - Joe Morgan (or Jackie Robinson?)
    SS - Robin Yount
    3B - Mike Schmidt
    LF - Ted Williams
    CF - Willie Mays (or Mickey Mantle?)
    RF - Hank Aaron
    C -- Johnny Bench
    RHP - Bob Feller, Tom Seaver, Bob Gibson
    LHP - Warren Spahn, Sandy Koufax, Steve Carlton
    Closer - Dennis Eckersley

    What is the best roster you can come up with, for players elected to the Hall of Fame after 1962 and who were NOT first-ballot selections?
    Luke

  • #2
    Here are some players selected after 1961, who were NOT first ballot selections:

    1B - John Mize (Harmon Killebrew?)
    2B - Bobby Doerr (Ryne Sandberg?)
    SS - Luke Appling (George Davis?)
    3B - Eddie Mathews
    LF - Joe Medwick
    CF - Duke Snyder (Richie Ashburn?)
    RF - Chuck Klein (Roberto Clemente? Sam Rice?)
    C -- Yogi Berra (Roy Campanella?)
    RHP - Satchel Paige, Don Drysdale, Early Wynn
    LHP - Whitey Ford, Hal Newshouser
    Closer - Dennis Eckersley

    Do any of these players compare with first-ballot inductees shown in post 1?

    Any other HOF inductees I didn't list that you also believe worthy of special recognition?
    Last edited by Appling; 04-12-2006, 07:55 PM.
    Luke

    Comment


    • #3
      --Eddie Mathews and Yogi Berra are arguably both the 2nd best players ever to play their positions and better than many 1st ballot selections. Johnny Mize may be the best player to get in via the VC.

      Comment


      • #4
        Since this exercise is being done within the context of players subject to the 5-year wait rule, we need to compare apples to apples. As such, all comparisons should be limited to players who made their first appearance on a BBWAA ballot in 1962 or later.

        Here are the 37 first-ballot inductees from 1962-2006:
        Hank Aaron, rf
        Ernie Banks, ss
        Johnny Bench, c
        Wade Boggs, 3b
        George Brett, 3b
        Lou Brock, lf
        Rod Carew, 2b
        Steve Carlton, p
        Roberto Clemente, rf
        Dennis Eckersley, p
        Bob Feller, p
        Bob Gibson, p
        Reggie Jackson, rf
        Al Kaline, rf
        Sandy Koufax, p
        Mickey Mantle, cf
        Willie Mays, cf
        Willie McCovey, 1b
        Paul Molitor, dh
        Joe Morgan, 2b
        Eddie Murray, 1b
        Stan Musial, lf
        Jim Palmer, p
        Kirby Puckett, cf
        Brooks Robinson, 3b
        Frank Robinson, rf
        Jackie Robinson, 2b
        Nolan Ryan, p
        Mike Schmidt, 3b
        Tom Seaver, p
        Ozzie Smith, ss
        Warren Spahn, p
        Willie Stargell, lf
        Ted Williams, lf
        Dave Winfield, rf
        Carl Yastrzemski, lf
        Robin Yount, ss

        Here are the other 36 inductees who debuted for the BBWAA in 1962 or later:
        Luis Aparicio, ss
        Richie Ashburn, cf
        Yogi Berra, c
        Jim Bunning, p
        Roy Campanella, c
        Gary Carter, c
        Orlando Cepeda, 1b
        Larry Doby, cf
        Don Drysdale, p
        Rollie Fingers, p
        Carlton Fisk, c
        Whitey Ford, p
        Nellie Fox, 2b
        Catfish Hunter, p
        Fergie Jenkins, p
        George Kell, 3b
        Harmon Killebrew, 1b
        Bob Lemon, p
        Juan Marichal, p
        Eddie Mathews, 3b
        Bill Mazeroski, 2b
        Hal Newhouser, p
        Phil Niekro, p
        Tony Perez, 1b
        Gaylord Perry, p
        Pee Wee Reese, ss
        Robin Roberts, p
        Ryne Sandberg, 2b
        Red Schoendienst, 2b
        Enos Slaughter, rf
        Duke Snider, cf
        Bruce Sutter, p
        Don Sutton, p
        Hoyt Wilhelm, p
        Billy Williams, lf
        Early Wynn, p

        That should facilitate some responses more readily!
        Last edited by Chadwick; 04-12-2006, 09:53 PM.
        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

        Comment


        • #5
          --Berra, Campanella and Fisk all had to wait at least an extra year . I'd say the BWAA has a problem evaluating catchers' careers. Somewhat surprising considering hwo generous they were to Berra and Campanella in the MVP voting.

          Comment


          • #6
            A few of your selections aren't relevant, I believe, for a number of reasons, primarily because they are not directly comparable to "first ballot selections" from the 1962-present era.

            George Davis never received a single vote in a BBWAA election, nor was he eligible to do so from 1962 on.

            Chuck Klein (1948), Johnny Mize (1960), and Sam Rice (1938) all debuted on the BBWAA ballot before 1962.

            Roberto Clemente was elected on his first try (in 1973).

            Satchel Paige may actually have been eligible for the Hall of Fame vote - I'm not sure if the vote was "legal" - in 1951 when he was named on a single ballot. Regardless, Paige also debuted prior to 1962.

            Dennis Eckersley was also elected on his first try (in 2004) and - in a very confusing moment - was named on both of your lists.
            "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
            "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
            "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
            "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

            Comment


            • #7
              My own lists:

              First-balloters
              C - Johnny Bench
              1B - Willie McCovey
              2B - Joe Morgan
              3B - Mike Schmidt
              SS - Robin Yount
              LF - Ted Williams
              CF - Mickey Mantle
              RF - Hank Aaron
              DH - Paul Molitor
              SP - Tom Seaver, Warren Spahn, Bob Feller, Bob Gibson
              RP - Dennis Eckersley

              "Second" Chances
              C - Yogi Berra
              1B - Harmon Killebrew
              2B - Ryne Sandberg
              3B - Eddie Mathews
              SS - Pee Wee Reese
              LF - Billy Williams
              CF - Duke Snider
              RF - Enos Slaughter
              SP - Robin Roberts, Juan Marichal, Hal Newhouser, Gaylord Perry
              RP - Hoyt Wilhelm
              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chancellor
                A few of your selections aren't relevant, I believe, for a number of reasons, primarily because they are not directly comparable to "first ballot selections" from the 1962-present era.

                George Davis never received a single vote in a BBWAA election, nor was he eligible to do so from 1962 on.

                Chuck Klein (1948), Johnny Mize (1960), and Sam Rice (1938) all debuted on the BBWAA ballot before 1962.

                Roberto Clemente was elected on his first try (in 1973).

                Satchel Paige may actually have been eligible for the Hall of Fame vote - I'm not sure if the vote was "legal" - in 1951 when he was named on a single ballot. Regardless, Paige also debuted prior to 1962.

                Dennis Eckersley was also elected on his first try (in 2004) and - in a very confusing moment - was named on both of your lists.
                Clemente always seems to be a special case. He was elected in a special ballot, without the five-year wait, after his tragic death while on a mercy mission. For some reason, he is never included in any official list I have seen of first-ballot Hall-of-Famer -- so he didn't get on my list, either.

                I seem to often confuse Eckersley with Rollie Fingers. Guess I don't pay enough attention to Relief Specialists when it comes to HOF voting.

                I made my list of players voted to the HOF after 1961, with no effort to determine which of those players were affected and which were not affected by the 5-year wait rule. I was too lazy to research all those names one at a time.
                Last edited by Appling; 04-14-2006, 09:04 AM.
                Luke

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by leecemark
                  --Eddie Mathews and Yogi Berra are arguably both the 2nd best players ever to play their positions and better than many 1st ballot selections. Johnny Mize may be the best player to get in via the VC.
                  Depending on how highly one regards some of the 19th century player selections, Mize should be by far the best player put in by the VC. I'd probably go one step further and say that Mize is the best player to be completely overlooked by the writers. They really dropped on the ball on that one.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Why wasn't Berra elected on the first ballot? Was it because he was a catcher? He was a popular player though...

                    Comment

                    Ad Widget

                    Collapse
                    Working...
                    X