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All-Time HOF Team: Manager

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  • All-Time HOF Team: Manager

    What the hey, if we're putting together an All-Time HOF Team, might as well have a manager...

    I'll let in LaRussa, Cox, and Torre, they're givens, after all...
    85
    Walt Alston-BKN/LA Dodgers
    4.71%
    4
    Tommy Lasorda-LAD
    3.53%
    3
    Joe Torre-NYY
    7.06%
    6
    Joe McCarthy-NYY
    10.59%
    9
    John McGraw-NYG
    18.82%
    16
    Tony La Russa-OAK/STL
    4.71%
    4
    Sparky Anderson-CIN/DET
    9.41%
    8
    Bobby Cox-ATL
    3.53%
    3
    Miller Huggins-NYY
    4.71%
    4
    Casey Stengel-NYY
    21.18%
    18
    Leo Durocher-BKN/NYG
    2.35%
    2
    Connie Mack-PHIA-PHIA
    9.41%
    8
    "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

  • #2
    My picks:

    -John McGraw with his 30 years at the helm of the Giants, highest winning percentage of managers in the Top Ten winningest, 2nd All-Time Winningest (Mack is 1st, but so high in losses and actually has a losing percentage overall, so...)
    -Casey Stengel, from 1949-1960 with the Yanks: 10 pennants and 7 World Series during that Golden Age... AND his number's retired by both the Yanks and the Mets, as he was their original manager, and Stengel-ese puts him over the top
    -Leo Durocher for cultivating not one but TWO great batches of youngsters, the Boys of Summer Brooklyn Dodgers and Willie Mays and his Giants... and HUGE bonus points for his both sticking up for Jackie Robinson and making it clear he was playing, end of story, AND for telling a young Willie Mays when he started his career 0-12 and was crying he was his center fielder no matter what... and what do you know, Willie soon got his first hit- HR off of Warren Spahn, and the rest of his career turned our alright, didn't it?

    McGraw manages, Casey handles the pitchers, and Durocher handles the position players.
    "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

    Comment


    • #3
      I chose McCarthy

      he did agreat job with the Cubs

      his Yankee teams were among the best run of teams ever

      and with almost no pitching did some good things with the Red Sox

      some of the best hitting teams of all time with some of the best individual seasons by players were all under McCarthy's helm... 1929 Cubs, 1931 Yankees, 1950 Red Sox

      he matched Stengels 7 world series victories with the Yankees but did not have the 3 defeats (just 1) and his 1939 Yankees may be one of the top 3-5 teams of all time

      he also did better than Stengel with non-Yankees teams, not just the hapless Mets but the Braves as well
      1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
      2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
      3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        Managing acumen can be as difficult to measure as catcher's defense. Nevertheless, with some of the metrics I've seen, I'd like to have included McKechnie, Jennings, Valentine, Weaver, Houk, Martin, Lopez, Griffith . . . and not the overrated Mack.
        And I'll vote an unpopular way.
        And if you can add my forgotten votes for Alston & Torre
        Last edited by RuthMayBond; 03-26-2010, 03:38 AM.
        Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
        Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
          My picks:

          -John McGraw with his 30 years at the helm of the Giants, highest winning percentage of managers in the Top Ten winningest, 2nd All-Time Winningest (Mack is 1st, but so high in losses and actually has a losing percentage overall, so...)
          -Casey Stengel, from 1949-1960 with the Yanks: 10 pennants and 7 World Series during that Golden Age... AND his number's retired by both the Yanks and the Mets, as he was their original manager, and Stengel-ese puts him over the top
          -Leo Durocher for cultivating not one but TWO great batches of youngsters, the Boys of Summer Brooklyn Dodgers and Willie Mays and his Giants... and HUGE bonus points for his both sticking up for Jackie Robinson and making it clear he was playing, end of story, AND for telling a young Willie Mays when he started his career 0-12 and was crying he was his center fielder no matter what... and what do you know, Willie soon got his first hit- HR off of Warren Spahn, and the rest of his career turned our alright, didn't it?

          McGraw manages, Casey handles the pitchers, and Durocher handles the position players.
          Joe McCarthy is in the top ten all time in wins (8th), he was 5th until the last few years when La Russa, Cox and Torre passed him
          his win % is .615 vs. McGraw's .586

          McCarthy's win % is the best of all time

          ---------------------------

          Durocher is associated with the Pete Reiser, Dixie Walker early to mid 40s Dodgers not the boys of summer which is defined basically as 1952-53

          he also did not manage Robinson his rookie year and for only 73 games in 1948 before he switched to to the Giants, hardly a legacy for managing or standing up for Robinson

          AND the 1951 Giants were not a batch of youngsters, outside of Mays especially, their pitching staff was the oldest in the league
          Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 03-26-2010, 02:25 PM.
          1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
          2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
          3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            I went McCarthy, a clear #1 in my book, Mc Graw and then for 3 decided on Anderson. Immediately after voting I saw Alston and thought he's getting undersupported. And now I really think so, after all is there a difference in winning with two franchises or winning with one multiple times over a 20 year span.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
              I went McCarthy, a clear #1 in my book,
              Unless you consider guys who weren't given the horses and still did well
              Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
              Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

              Comment


              • #8
                ops

                like most of the other polls I only voted for one, instead of several when that option was available

                I would pick Alston #2

                and maybe Stengel 3 or someone not offered as an option
                1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hmmm... Stengel/McGraw/McCarthy all in there tight... Sparky seeing some support, and then 2's and 1's everywhere...

                  I'd have thought Durocher might've gotten more support due to Jackie and Willie and those teams, great player's manager... and then Lasorda only having 1 is a surprise... he and Vin Scully have been there FOREVER...
                  "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I didn't realize Stengel was so well respected as to be #1. I'm not complaining. I voted for him. But surprised none the less.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Alston
                      Stengel
                      LaRussa

                      I'm surprised to find that I picked LaRussa third, and not Cox, but I think LaRussa is a better WS manager. He's won with teams that were kind of mediocre.
                      "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

                      NL President Ford Frick, 1947

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear View Post
                        Alston
                        Stengel
                        LaRussa

                        I'm surprised to find that I picked LaRussa third, and not Cox, but I think LaRussa is a better WS manager. He's won with teams that were kind of mediocre.
                        he has lost more times as a favorite than won as an underdog
                        1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                        2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                        3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          another way to look at stengel vs mccarthy is this way

                          stengel yankees vs mccarthy yankees
                          stengel won a few more pennants (10-8), they both won 7 world championships
                          mccarthy had the better win % and the better "standout" teams
                          a draw at the least

                          stengel braves vs mccarthy cubs
                          mccarthy in a landlside

                          stengel mets (or dodgers) vs mccarthy red sox
                          mccarthy in a landlside

                          there are reasons to rate stengel's yankees slightly above mccarthy's yankees, but also there are reasons to rate mccarthys yankees over stengels
                          I cant see it as more than a draw or the 51-49 type edge

                          what mccarthy did with two other teams blows away what stengel did with three other teams

                          mccarthy won 9 pennants, stengel won 10 but stengels were all yankees, while mccarthy added a Cubs pennant

                          mccarthy also had 3 second place finishes with other clubs, and two third place finishes with other clubs, losing 1 pennant in a playoff and another by 1 game

                          mccarthy never finished under .525 or in the second division

                          stengel in three seasons with the dodgers, never had a winning record or finished better than 5th
                          stengel in 6 seasons with the braves had one winning season (still finished in second division) then 4 straight horrific seventh place finishes with win pct between .399 and .428, followed by a partial year almost as bad stengel with the mets was awful and you can blame that on expansion, yet the angels were competitive very quickly and the colts/astros, while bad were not as bad as the mets

                          mccarthys lowest win pct of .525 (partial year, 1950) was better than 14 of stengels 25 teams (56%)
                          Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 03-26-2010, 02:47 PM.
                          1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                          2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                          3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
                            another way to look at stengel vs mccarthy is this way

                            stengel yankees vs mccarthy yankees
                            stengel won a few more pennants (10-8), they both won 7 world championships
                            mccarthy had the better win % and the better "standout" teams
                            a draw at the least

                            stengel braves vs mccarthy cubs
                            mccarthy in a landlside

                            stengel mets (or dodgers) vs mccarthy red sox
                            mccarthy in a landlside

                            there are reasons to rate stengel's yankees slightly above mccarthy's yankees, but also there are reasons to rate mccarthys yankees over stengels
                            I cant see it as more than a draw or the 51-49 type edge

                            what mccarthy did with two other teams blows away what stengel did with three other teams

                            mccarthy won 9 pennants, stengel won 10 but stengels were all yankees, while mccarthy added a Cubs pennant

                            mccarthy also had 3 second place finishes with other clubs, and two third place finishes with other clubs, losing 1 pennant in a playoff and another by 1 game

                            mccarthy never finished under .525 or in the second division

                            stengel in three seasons with the dodgers, never had a winning record or finished better than 5th
                            stengel in 6 seasons with the braves had one winning season (still finished in second division) then 4 straight horrific seventh place finishes with win pct between .399 and .428, followed by a partial year almost as bad stengel with the mets was awful and you can blame that on expansion, yet the angels were competitive very quickly and the colts/astros, while bad were not as bad as the mets

                            mccarthys lowest win pct of .525 (partial year, 1950) was better than 14 of stengels 25 teams (56%)
                            Not all about numbers to me in baeball at any position, including manager.

                            Stengel just had a WAY with his players... dik, when I think of McCarthy's Yanks I think of a very business-like manager, and that's not bad... but with John McGraw already on the team as a coach(at least in my pick) and he's all-business and better than McCarthy BY the numbers...

                            Personality wins sometimes, and, truth be told, I'll take Stengel, Durocher, McGraw (as 2nd winningest behind Mack who's tops in wins and losses so a bit of a wash there numerically) and Durocher AT LEAST before I opt for McCarthy... maybe even La Russa or Torre.
                            "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              better than McCarthy BY the numbers

                              which numbers?

                              both won 9 pennants

                              mcgraw won only 3 series, mccarthy won 7

                              mcarthy had better win pct .615 to .586

                              what numbers?

                              Stengel just had a WAY with his players

                              sure didn't work with the dodgers, braves or mets
                              1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                              2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                              3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                              Comment

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