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  • Add both Ted Turner and Bill Bartholomay to my HOF.
    3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

    "To this day, and forever, no one will ever be able to make sense of the game’s record book, now smeared with phony honors. It’s unfixable." - Thomas Boswell

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    • Originally posted by Los Bravos View Post
      Add both Ted Turner and Bill Bartholomay to my HOF.
      Did the Braves do anything regarding Ty Cobb to connect with fans when they moved to Atlanta?
      "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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      • Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

        Did the Braves do anything regarding Ty Cobb to connect with fans when they moved to Atlanta?
        Cobb died 5 years before the Braves moved to Atlanta. That would have been the only thing I can think of that might have been addressed in Atlanta. The Braves had Hank Aaron to put up on a pedestal.

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        • There used to be a statue of him outside of Turner Field. I don't think it made the trip to Cobb County.
          3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

          "To this day, and forever, no one will ever be able to make sense of the game’s record book, now smeared with phony honors. It’s unfixable." - Thomas Boswell

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Los Bravos View Post
            There used to be a statue of him outside of Turner Field. I don't think it made the trip to Cobb County.
            Interesting. I never thought about it until I posted that.
            "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

            Comment


            • (+)
              Bill Freehan
              Francisco Rodriguez
              Miguel Tejada

              (-)
              Chris Sale (bumped from Futures to Possibles)
              Buster Posey (bumped from Futures to Possibles)
              Last edited by pedrosrotatorcuff; 04-22-2020, 08:40 PM.

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              • Originally posted by pedrosrotatorcuff View Post
                (+)
                Bill Freehan
                Francisco Rodriguez
                Miguel Tejada

                (-)
                Chris Sale (bumped from Futures to Possibles)
                Buster Posey (bumped from Futures to Possibles)
                How did Posey move from HOFer to not a HOFer after a perfectly adequate, MLB catcher season. He was no All-Star, but I don't see how anything in 2020 would push him OUT if he already earned the honor. Same with Sale.
                1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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                • Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

                  How did Posey move from HOFer to not a HOFer after a perfectly adequate, MLB catcher season. He was no All-Star, but I don't see how anything in 2020 would push him OUT if he already earned the honor. Same with Sale.
                  Posey and Sale were both borderline for me. I decided to trim my futures list quite a bit down to the real locks, and though Posey and Sale are both close (and definitely among the closest to "in" for me) I was hoping Buster would at least be on track for a 2-WAR-quality season and reach some good counting stat echelons (300 doubles, 150 dingers, 1500 hits; he's at 270/140/1380 respectively) God forbid we still value counting stats... I'm not confident that he's a rebound candidate, but I'm hopeful.
                  And I'm aware we wouldn't even be a month through the season yet; that's why I said on track for those things.
                  Last edited by pedrosrotatorcuff; 04-23-2020, 10:00 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by pedrosrotatorcuff View Post

                    Posey and Sale were both borderline for me. I decided to trim my futures list quite a bit down to the real locks, and though Posey and Sale are both close (and definitely among the closest to "in" for me) I was hoping Buster would at least be on track for a 2-WAR-quality season and reach some good counting stat echelons (300 doubles, 150 dingers, 1500 hits; he's at 270/140/1380 respectively) God forbid we still value counting stats... I'm not confident that he's a rebound candidate, but I'm hopeful.
                    And I'm aware we wouldn't even be a month through the season yet; that's why I said on track for those things.
                    Fair enogh. For what it is worth, with framing,.Posey was still probably a 1.5 WAR catcher last year, which is about 2 WAR for other positions.
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                    Comment


                    • Please add Pie Traynor to my PHOF.

                      Traynor had no business in any "greatest ever" conversation about third baseman, at least in my lifetime. He was never an "All-Time Great". His enduring popularity and HOF case rested on the following three phenomena:

                      1. His .320 lifetime batting average, viewed outside of context, and not properly understood during Traynor's lifetime, made Traynor's bat look much better than it was.

                      2. His 1,273 RBI, the most by any third baseman in the 20th century until Eddie Mathews, also ignored the context of Traynor batting lower in the order behind an average OBP of .372 for those ahead of him in the lineup throughout his prime years (1922-1934). Carey, Cuyler, Vaughan, both Waners, Lindstrom, Maranville and even Cronin (briefly) batted ahead of Traynor in those years; in short, Traynor had historic opportunity with runners on base ahead of him and historic opportunity in a high-batting average era where he collected many base hits with runners on base.

                      3. Third basemen who were as good or better - Baker, Elliott, Groh and Hack, to name some - simply weren't recognized as being as good because their superficial counting numbers weren't viewed in context and/or their gloves weren't properly valued. Baker and Groh suffered from the Deadball Era. Elliott and Hack had lower BA, but better OBP.

                      In short, Traynor is a low-end Hall of Famer when compared to the average HOF third baseman.

                      However, my criticisms of Traynor have previously blinded me to the simple fact that Traynor was the best third baseman in the game in the 1920s and 1930s, and by a decent margin. Among NL position players during Traynor's 13-year prime, Traynor ranks among the top 10 overall. I advocate for players who fit that sort of description regularly. That's not an "inner circle" guy, but it's a deserving Hall of Famer. Traynor wasn't the one of the greatest third basemen of all-time, but he was the greatest third baseman of his time and that's enough, for me, to justify his induction.

                      Pie Traynor, my apologies. Welcome to my PHOF.

                      Correspondingly (albeit irrelevant to this project), I no longer consider Traynor's election to Cooperstown a mistake.
                      Last edited by Chadwick; 05-02-2020, 12:34 PM.
                      "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                      "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                      "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                      "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

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                      • Added: Mike Tiernan
                        Removed: Catfish Hunter

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                        • (-)
                          Billy Beane (from futures)

                          As great an exec as he is, until one of his teams wins a World Series he's gonna be on the outside looking in for me. Or at least gets back to the ALCS and doesn't get swept.

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                          • Please add Dave Parker to my PHOF.

                            I make the case for him in his thread here.
                            "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                            "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                            "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                            "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                            Comment


                            • Added Tommy Leach.

                              Comment


                              • Added Dave Parker.

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