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  • Added to my personal HOF:

    Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza, Curt Schilling

    Removed from my personal HOF:

    Cesar Cedeno, Dom DiMaggio, Kazuhisa Inao, Dale Murphy, Lance Parrish, Red Schoendienst, Hilton Smith, Roy
    Thomas

    Added to future contenders:

    Carlos Beltran, Adrien Beltre, Miguel Cabrera, Andy Pettitte (needs 1 more good year), CC Sabathia (needs 1 more good year), Justin Verlander (needs 2 more good years)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
      Added to my personal HOF:

      Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza, Curt Schilling

      Removed from my personal HOF:

      Cesar Cedeno, Dom DiMaggio, Kazuhisa Inao, Dale Murphy, Lance Parrish, Red Schoendienst, Hilton Smith, Roy
      Thomas

      Added to future contenders:

      Carlos Beltran, Adrien Beltre, Miguel Cabrera, Andy Pettitte (needs 1 more good year), CC Sabathia (needs 1 more good year), Justin Verlander (needs 2 more good years)
      Got it. Thanks!
      *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DJC View Post
        Thanks for the update (and the summary of changes, which is very helpful). Steve Finley is a 2007 retiree and is still in your list of Future HOFers. Are you dropping him or should he be up in the main Hall?
        I drew my line exceedingly generously when filling out this ballot, so yes, Finley just barely clears the bar. I've corrected the above posts.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cougar View Post
          I drew my line exceedingly generously when filling out this ballot
          I've noticed.
          *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DJC View Post

            Additions (30): Babe Adams, Noodles Hahn
            There's lots of people who support Addie Joss for the HOF because of his early demise. Few recall that Noodles Hahn was maybe the best pitcher in MLB in those first years under the longer pitching distance. Hahn was overused at a young age. A fact that lead to him having a dead arm by 26 years old. Had Tommy John surgery existed in his era, Hahn could have become one of the all time greats at his position. It's nice to see him get some recognition for how great he was (albeit for a very short time).

            Seeing Babe Adams here gave me a brief pause. He was much better when compared to his comparables than he gets credit for. A closer look at him in relation to his era might be needed.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
              There's lots of people who support Addie Joss for the HOF because of his early demise. Few recall that Noodles Hahn was maybe the best pitcher in MLB in those first years under the longer pitching distance. Hahn was overused at a young age. A fact that lead to him having a dead arm by 26 years old. Had Tommy John surgery existed in his era, Hahn could have become one of the all time greats at his position. It's nice to see him get some recognition for how great he was (albeit for a very short time).

              Seeing Babe Adams here gave me a brief pause. He was much better when compared to his comparables than he gets credit for. A closer look at him in relation to his era might be needed.
              Including a guy like Hahn with such a short career (8 years) made me hesitate at first, but as with Koufax, he packed a lot of value (and innings) into a short period of time. The 10-season minimum for consideration of players for the actual Hall is rather inadequate; 1000 PA or IP would be a better cutoff, if indeed one is necessary.
              *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DJC View Post
                Including a guy like Hahn with such a short career (8 years) made me hesitate at first, but as with Koufax, he packed a lot of value (and innings) into a short period of time. The 10-season minimum for consideration of players for the actual Hall is rather inadequate; 1000 PA or IP would be a better cutoff, if indeed one is necessary.
                I agree that having minimum playing times are not necessary. I have Chino Smith in my personal HOF and am not alone in that. Smith only played 6 years. Even factoring in LQ, Chino Smith is possibly the best hitter ever to have played the game. That is too hard for me to ignore. There are people in the HOF who had 5-6 year peaks and not much else. Why exclude those who had those amazing peaks, but didn't linger around at or below average beyond that?

                Comment


                • I revised my list of managers as well. I'm using the formula W*Win% [= W^2/(W+L)] to rank them. By multiplying wins by winning percentage, I'm attempting to take into account both longevity and winningness. I've arbitrarily set the cutoff at Whitey Herzog. My previous ranking system involved totaling the team WAR under each manager, but I didn't like it all that much, mainly because in the case of a team with more than one manager in a season, I could only divide the WAR based on the number of games managed and not the winning percentage. I'm also including Rube Foster, who was elected to the actual HOF as a manager, and Buck O'Neil, who wasn't but I'm not sure why.

                  Summary of changes:

                  Additions (4): Bruce Bochy, Clark Griffith, Jim Leyland, Wilbert Robinson

                  Subtractions (3): Danny Murtaugh, Mike Scioscia, Billy Southworth

                  I'll note that Cap Anson, Fred Clarke, Clark Griffith, John McGraw, and Joe Torre are in both my player Hall and my contributor Hall.
                  Last edited by Nerdlinger; 10-26-2012, 09:32 AM.
                  *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DJC View Post
                    I revised my list of managers as well. I'm using the formula W*Win% [= W^2/(W+L)] to rank them. By multiplying wins by winning percentage, I'm attempting to take into account both longevity and winningness. I've arbitrarily set the cutoff at Whitey Herzog. My previous ranking system involved totaling the team WAR under each manager, but I didn't like it all that much, mainly because in the case of a team with more than one manager in a season, I could only divide the WAR based on the number of games managed and not the winning percentage. I'm also including Rube Foster, who was elected to the actual HOF as a manager, and Buck O'Neil, who wasn't but I'm not sure why.

                    Summary of changes:

                    Additions (4): Bruce Bochy, Clark Griffith, Jim Leyland, Wilbert Robinson

                    Subtractions (3): Danny Murtaugh, Mike Scioscia, Billy Southworth

                    I'll note that Cap Anson, Fred Clarke, Clark Griffith, John McGraw, and Joe Torre are in both my player Hall and my contributor Hall.
                    Where does Connie Mack fall using this equation? I've been looking for something other than anecdotal evidence to use when looking at managers.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                      Where does Connie Mack fall using this equation? I've been looking for something other than anecdotal evidence to use when looking at managers.
                      Mack is #1, although not by as much as you might think. His huge win total is cut down by his sub-0.500 winning percentage.

                      Here are the top 200 managers in W^2/(W+L) from 1876-2012. This includes all managers with at least 1000 games managed.

                      Code:
                       Rk  Manager              First  Last     G     W     L   T    Pct W^2/(W+L)      tWAA       tWAR
                        1  Mack, Connie          1894  1950  7755  3731  3948  76  0.486  1812.783  -90.4985  1315.1154
                        2  McGraw, John          1899  1932  4768  2763  1947  58  0.587  1620.843  317.2459  1130.0396
                        3  LaRussa, Tony         1979  2011  5094  2726  2364   4  0.536  1459.936  122.6721  1017.0261
                        4  Cox, Bobby            1978  2010  4501  2499  1999   3  0.556  1388.395  238.0220   993.1857
                        5  McCarthy, Joe         1926  1950  3487  2125  1333  29  0.615  1305.849  319.4300   909.2458
                        6  Torre, Joe            1977  2010  4292  2304  1982   6  0.538  1238.548  144.1574   934.2125
                        7  Anderson, Sparky      1970  1995  4030  2194  1834   2  0.545  1195.044  125.0189   863.5270
                        8  Alston, Walter        1954  1976  3658  2040  1613   5  0.558  1139.228  175.6551   872.4127
                        9  Durocher, Leo         1939  1973  3739  2008  1709  22  0.540  1084.763  102.7504   823.4310
                       10  Harris, Bucky         1924  1956  4410  2158  2219  33  0.493  1063.963  -18.0279   759.6407
                       11  McKechnie, Bill       1915  1946  3647  1896  1723  28  0.524   993.317   61.6558   697.3586
                       12  Stengel, Casey        1934  1965  3765  1905  1841  19  0.509   968.773   12.2345   669.2799
                       13  Piniella, Lou         1986  2010  3544  1831  1713   0  0.517   945.982   89.4806   748.5740
                       14  Clarke, Fred          1897  1915  2826  1602  1181  43  0.576   922.172  142.4361   622.7865
                       15  Mauch, Gene           1960  1987  3941  1902  2036   3  0.483   918.640  -55.3306   685.7827
                       16  Weaver, Earl          1968  1986  2541  1480  1060   1  0.583   862.362  172.2573   644.9770
                       17  Leyland, Jim          1986  2012  3334  1676  1656   2  0.503   843.030  -37.9130   559.8391
                       18  Lasorda, Tom          1976  1996  3040  1599  1439   2  0.526   841.607  106.9499   635.7656
                       19  Houk, Ralph           1961  1984  3157  1619  1531   7  0.514   832.115   28.9798   591.8286
                       20  Baker, Dusty          1993  2012  3014  1581  1432   1  0.525   829.592   81.1430   576.3115
                       21  Lopez, Al             1951  1969  2425  1410  1004  11  0.584   823.571  172.6464   569.7760
                       22  Williams, Dick        1967  1988  3023  1571  1451   1  0.520   816.691   37.2006   579.8690
                       23  Huggins, Miller       1913  1929  2570  1413  1134  23  0.555   783.890   92.9872   561.8447
                       24  Griffith, Clark       1901  1920  2917  1491  1367  59  0.522   777.845   31.9637   585.0208
                       25  Selee, Frank          1890  1905  2180  1284   862  34  0.598   768.246  144.5348   535.1376
                       26  Anson, Cap            1879  1898  2280  1291   945  44  0.577   745.385   89.0106   505.7619
                       27  Bochy, Bruce          1995  2012  2898  1454  1444   0  0.502   729.509  -10.1742   465.5573
                       28  Johnson, Davey        1984  2012  2283  1286   995   2  0.564   725.031  129.3260   531.9930
                       29  Grimm, Charlie        1932  1960  2368  1287  1067  14  0.547   703.640   89.9289   535.6650
                       30  Robinson, Wilbert     1902  1931  2818  1399  1398  21  0.500   699.750   -5.8080   470.6967
                       31  Hanlon, Ned           1889  1907  2527  1313  1164  50  0.530   695.991   84.2068   521.2894
                       32  Martin, Billy         1969  1988  2267  1253  1013   1  0.553   692.855   94.9091   516.2157
                       33  Herzog, Whitey        1973  1990  2409  1281  1125   3  0.532   682.029   37.8764   482.0508
                       34  Dykes, Jimmy          1934  1961  2962  1406  1541  15  0.477   670.796  -76.2805   404.8795
                       35  Tanner, Chuck         1970  1988  2738  1352  1381   5  0.495   668.827   25.1435   526.3358
                       36  Cronin, Joe           1933  1947  2315  1236  1055  24  0.540   666.825   70.7019   452.1529
                       37  Jennings, Hughie      1907  1925  2202  1184   995  23  0.543   643.348   31.3543   463.4504
                       38  Scioscia, Mike        2000  2012  2105  1154   951   0  0.548   632.644   59.8283   475.9744
                       39  Southworth, Billy     1929  1951  1770  1044   704  22  0.597   623.533  133.9830   481.9197
                       40  Murtaugh, Danny       1957  1976  2068  1115   950   3  0.540   602.046   74.9430   463.2219
                       41  Rigney, Bill          1956  1976  2561  1239  1321   1  0.484   599.657  -45.2042   409.2847
                       42  Valentine, Bobby      1985  2012  2349  1184  1165   0  0.504   596.788  -15.7564   403.4586
                       43  Hargrove, Mike        1991  2007  2350  1183  1165   2  0.504   596.034    3.1555   468.2963
                       44  Frisch, Frankie       1933  1951  2246  1138  1078  30  0.514   584.406   -9.7635   409.3163
                       45  O'Neill, Steve        1935  1954  1879  1040   821  18  0.559   581.193   82.1034   388.4909
                       46  Wright, Harry         1876  1893  1917  1042   847  28  0.552   574.782   59.6563   410.7159
                       47  Boudreau, Lou         1942  1960  2404  1162  1224  18  0.487   565.903    5.1185   374.1422
                       48  McNamara, John        1969  1996  2389  1159  1228   2  0.486   562.749  -29.5161   402.6494
                       49  Howe, Art             1989  2004  2266  1129  1137   0  0.498   562.507  -23.6807   391.2867
                       50  Chance, Frank         1905  1923  1620   946   648  26  0.593   561.428   79.0192   363.0354
                       51  Showalter, Buck       1992  2012  2095  1077  1017   1  0.514   553.930   -1.5751   397.0622
                       52  Kelly, Tom            1986  2001  2385  1140  1244   1  0.478   545.134  -43.3506   418.1396
                       53  Schoendienst, Red     1965  1990  1999  1041   955   3  0.522   542.926   43.7190   409.5712
                       54  Francona, Terry       1997  2011  1934  1024   910   0  0.529   542.180   62.5783   427.3155
                       55  McKeon, Jack          1973  2011  2041  1050   990   1  0.515   540.441   16.8952   371.5466
                       56  Alou, Felipe          1992  2006  2046  1032  1013   1  0.505   520.794  -19.8237   312.7352
                       57  Virdon, Bill          1972  1984  1918   995   921   2  0.519   516.715   52.0983   391.6883
                       58  Manuel, Charlie       2000  2012  1674   928   746   0  0.554   514.447   88.5990   378.8161
                       59  Dressen, Chuck        1934  1966  1991  1009   973   9  0.509   513.663  -15.4903   340.7223
                       60  Comiskey, Charlie     1883  1894  1408   839   540  29  0.608   510.458  102.5111   283.4287
                       61  Dark, Al              1961  1977  1950   994   954   2  0.510   507.205   10.1430   367.8671
                       62  Robinson, Frank       1975  2006  2237  1061  1176   0  0.474   503.228  -55.4911   343.0725
                       63  Fregosi, Jim          1978  2000  2123  1028  1095   0  0.484   497.779  -37.2652   339.9784
                       64  Williams, Jimy        1986  2004  1700   909   790   1  0.535   486.334   81.1714   397.9175
                       65  Gardenhire, Ron       2002  2012  1773   925   848   0  0.522   482.586    3.3794   355.5216
                       66  Garner, Phil          1992  2007  2032   981  1050   1  0.483   473.836  -37.4823   336.6225
                       67  Richards, Paul        1951  1976  1837   923   901  13  0.506   467.066   12.3327   315.7991
                       68  Gaston, Cito          1989  2010  1731   894   837   0  0.516   461.719   45.8537   384.9790
                       69  Zimmer, Don           1972  1999  1780   906   873   1  0.509   461.403    7.9788   329.7699
                       70  Terry, Bill           1932  1941  1496   823   661  12  0.555   456.421   56.6036   326.3101
                       71  Stallings, George     1897  1920  1812   879   898  35  0.495   434.801   -9.3327   302.4053
                       72  Tracy, Jim            2001  2012  1736   856   880   0  0.493   422.083   -6.8842   276.9287
                       73  Moran, Pat            1915  1923  1343   748   586   9  0.561   419.418   58.4841   280.4597
                       74  Hutchinson, Fred      1952  1964  1666   830   827   9  0.501   415.751  -18.9999   297.5310
                       75  Oates, Johnny         1991  2001  1539   795   743   1  0.517   410.940   27.6839   332.4341
                       76  Tebeau, Patsy         1890  1900  1339   726   583  30  0.555   402.655   64.6400   304.6348
                       77  Mutrie, James         1883  1891  1114   658   419  37  0.611   402.009  100.6820   287.6163
                       78  Rodgers, Buck         1980  1994  1558   784   773   1  0.504   394.769    6.4318   290.0285
                       79  Tebbetts, Birdie      1954  1966  1455   748   705   2  0.515   385.068   15.3178   287.4459
                       80  Guillen, Ozzie        2004  2012  1453   746   707   0  0.513   383.012   -7.6779   273.0478
                       81  Craig, Roger          1978  1992  1475   738   737   0  0.500   369.250    0.9031   258.1102
                       82  Jones, Fielder        1904  1918  1297   683   582  32  0.540   368.766   39.2702   265.6782
                       83  Manuel, Jerry         1998  2010  1382   701   679   2  0.508   356.088    6.1288   264.8775
                       84  Smith, Mayo           1955  1970  1279   662   612   5  0.520   343.991   20.8436   255.8550
                       85  Wedge, Eric           2003  2012  1457   702   755   0  0.482   338.232   -5.9655   282.9146
                       86  Fohl, Lee             1915  1926  1520   713   792  15  0.474   337.787  -17.7791   276.5871
                       87  Speaker, Tris         1919  1926  1139   617   520   2  0.543   334.819   50.7049   269.3698
                       88  McAleer, Jimmy        1901  1911  1658   735   889  34  0.453   332.651  -34.0884   282.3931
                       89  Shotton, Burt         1928  1950  1469   697   764   8  0.477   332.518  -40.8795   232.6762
                       90  Ozark, Danny          1973  1984  1161   618   542   1  0.533   329.245   23.1920   224.1784
                       91  Franks, Herman        1965  1979  1128   605   521   2  0.537   325.067   34.7511   247.0145
                       92  Hornsby, Rogers       1925  1953  1530   701   812  17  0.463   324.786  -62.2410   217.7194
                       93  Walker, Harry         1955  1972  1235   630   604   1  0.511   321.637    3.4835   237.6411
                       94  Melvin, Bob           2000  2012  1270   638   632   0  0.502   320.507   -1.4312   227.0511
                       95  Girardi, Joe          2006  2012   971   556   415   0  0.573   318.369   74.5867   263.1974
                       96  Maddon, Joe           1996  2012  1186   613   573   0  0.517   316.837   20.3903   254.8465
                       97  Hurdle, Clint         2002  2012  1483   685   798   0  0.462   316.403  -40.1343   202.8594
                       98  Bauer, Hank           1961  1969  1139   594   544   1  0.522   310.049   21.7994   209.6715
                       99  Hodges, Gil           1963  1971  1414   660   753   1  0.467   308.280  -41.1042   204.5088
                      100  Yost, Ned             2003  2012  1410   655   755   0  0.465   304.273  -34.2540   211.5312
                      101  Bristol, Dave         1966  1980  1425   657   765   3  0.462   303.551  -51.9065   215.6381
                      102  Donovan, Patsy        1897  1911  1597   684   879  34  0.438   299.332  -74.9426   209.5244
                      103  Baylor, Don           1993  2002  1316   627   689   0  0.476   298.730  -21.0859   194.3944
                      104  Torborg, Jeff         1977  2003  1352   634   718   0  0.469   297.305  -34.3916   210.5482
                      105  Riggleman, Jim        1992  2011  1486   662   824   0  0.445   294.915  -66.2667   179.0174
                      106  Collins, Terry        1994  2012  1202   595   607   0  0.495   294.530  -10.2540   203.2435
                      107  Sewell, Luke          1941  1952  1259   606   644   9  0.485   293.789  -23.1886   172.1408
                      108  Schmelz, Gus          1884  1897  1357   624   703  30  0.470   293.426    0.0158   190.2513
                      109  Johnson, Walter       1929  1935   966   529   432   5  0.550   291.198   34.4912   219.0047
                      110  Mele, Sam             1961  1967   963   524   436   3  0.546   286.017   52.1029   209.9841
                      111  Haney, Fred           1939  1959  1393   629   757   7  0.454   285.455  -67.8162   198.1306
                      112  Macha, Ken            2003  2010   972   525   447   0  0.540   283.565   19.2692   201.7577
                      113  Rickey, Branch        1913  1925  1277   597   664  16  0.473   282.640  -14.6559   212.5405
                      114  Higgins, Pinky        1955  1962  1119   560   556   3  0.502   281.004    2.1944   185.4344
                      115  Washington, Ron       2007  2012   972   520   452   0  0.535   278.189   17.6920   211.1449
                      116  Barnie, Billy         1883  1898  1477   632   810  35  0.438   276.993  -83.7569   101.0107
                      117  Howser, Dick          1978  1986   933   507   425   1  0.544   275.804   20.6830   188.6622
                      118  Corrales, Pat         1978  2000  1218   577   636   5  0.476   274.467  -28.4817   193.6519
                      119  Lamont, Gene          1992  2000  1116   553   562   1  0.496   274.268    2.2375   200.6243
                      120  Ewing, Buck           1890  1900   903   489   395  19  0.553   270.499   30.4344   183.3662
                      121  Hendricks, Jack       1918  1929  1055   520   528   7  0.496   258.015   15.0687   194.6761
                      122  Dyer, Eddie           1946  1950   777   446   325   6  0.578   257.997   43.2872   204.0896
                      123  Berra, Yogi           1964  1985   930   484   444   2  0.522   252.431   18.0258   179.0222
                      124  Peckinpaugh, Roger    1914  1941   995   500   491   4  0.505   252.270    4.3662   187.2123
                      125  Collins, Jimmy        1901  1906   842   455   376  11  0.548   249.128   32.1068   194.5279
                      126  Cobb, Ty              1921  1926   933   479   444  10  0.519   248.582   15.7184   196.5645
                      127  Traynor, Pie          1934  1939   868   457   406   5  0.530   242.003   33.3132   183.4115
                      128  Stanky, Eddie         1952  1977   906   467   435   4  0.518   241.784   13.7608   180.7679
                      129  Carrigan, Bill        1913  1929  1003   489   500  14  0.494   241.781   -8.2736   184.8468
                      130  Dierker, Larry        1997  2001   783   435   348   0  0.556   241.667   54.0357   183.4841
                      131  Killefer, Bill        1921  1933  1149   524   622   3  0.457   239.595  -52.4036   154.4052
                      132  Gonzalez, Fredi       2000  2012   881   459   422   0  0.521   239.138    4.7643   149.4944
                      133  Bush, Donie           1923  1933  1045   497   539   9  0.480   238.426  -24.9192   163.2898
                      134  Trebelhorn, Tom       1986  1994   932   471   461   0  0.505   238.027   -7.1659   165.1550
                      135  Duffy, Hugh           1901  1922  1221   535   671  15  0.444   237.334  -49.2989   175.8758
                      136  Mitchell, Fred        1917  1923  1044   494   543   7  0.476   235.329  -15.2752   159.3961
                      137  Ward, Monte           1880  1894   751   412   320  19  0.563   231.891   39.1547   168.7463
                      138  Buckenberger, Al      1889  1904  1043   488   539  16  0.475   231.883  -21.2239   147.2824
                      139  Harris, Lum           1961  1972   956   466   488   2  0.488   227.627  -26.2993   150.2474
                      140  Watkins, Bill         1884  1899   913   451   444  18  0.504   227.264    6.4153   159.1038
                      141  Altobelli, Joe        1977  1991   844   437   407   0  0.518   226.267    4.8765   153.8592
                      142  Baker, Del            1933  1960   785   419   360   6  0.538   225.367   25.8295   154.5684
                      143  Gibson, George        1920  1934   759   413   344   2  0.546   225.322   22.0503   153.2344
                      144  Bamberger, George     1978  1986   936   458   478   0  0.489   224.107    7.4399   179.6395
                      145  Lemon, Bob            1970  1982   833   430   403   0  0.516   221.969    8.6489   166.3420
                      146  Green, Dallas         1979  1996   932   454   478   0  0.487   221.155   -3.8775   155.2331
                      147  Black, Buddy          2007  2012   972   463   509   0  0.476   220.544  -18.5383   140.8914
                      148  Ott, Mel              1942  1948  1004   464   530  10  0.467   216.596  -24.5920   166.3383
                      149  Rose, Pete            1984  1989   786   412   373   1  0.525   216.234   -7.5216   135.7806
                      150  Bell, Buddy           1996  2007  1229   514   715   0  0.418   214.968  -78.7476   151.8859
                      151  Bragan, Bobby         1956  1966   927   443   478   6  0.481   213.083    4.8714   186.3222
                      152  Keane, John           1961  1966   749   398   350   1  0.532   211.770   29.5479   172.3084
                      153  Johnson, Darrell      1974  1982  1063   472   590   1  0.444   209.778  -61.8096   138.5704
                      154  Little, Grady         2000  2007   679   377   302   0  0.555   209.321   43.0544   168.5658
                      155  Lajoie, Nap           1905  1909   700   377   309  14  0.550   207.185   33.2145   166.2018
                      156  Scheffing, Bob        1957  1963   849   418   427   4  0.495   206.774    7.6889   163.4271
                      157  Irwin, Arthur         1889  1899   863   416   427  20  0.493   205.286   -1.5625   147.8321
                      158  Bowa, Larry           1987  2004   853   418   435   0  0.490   204.835    4.6977   149.0547
                      159  Gleason, Kid          1919  1923   759   392   364   3  0.519   203.259    8.6474   154.2149
                      160  Cochrane, Mickey      1934  1938   600   348   250   2  0.582   202.515   34.5385   149.9543
                      161  Lefebvre, Jim         1989  1999   860   417   442   1  0.485   202.432   -5.0417   149.9474
                      162  Dooin, Red            1910  1914   775   392   370  13  0.514   201.659   -0.1102   126.4865
                      163  Shettsline, Bill      1898  1902   677   367   303   7  0.548   201.028    7.0607   125.5567
                      164  Armour, Bill          1902  1906   736   382   347   7  0.524   200.170   11.9446   151.4060
                      165  Loftus, Tom           1884  1903  1055   454   580  21  0.439   199.338  -40.9838   140.0142
                      166  Bancroft, Frank       1880  1902   719   375   333  11  0.530   198.623   19.2015   144.3123
                      167  Wilson, Jimmie        1934  1944  1237   493   735   9  0.401   197.923  -69.4850   151.3256
                      168  Rowland, Pants        1915  1918   590   339   247   4  0.578   196.111   38.9762   156.2491
                      169  Street, Gabby         1929  1938   702   365   332   5  0.524   191.141    7.0059   130.9795
                      170  Fox, Charlie          1970  1983   748   377   371   0  0.504   190.012   -1.8970   127.6889
                      171  Sawyer, Eddie         1948  1960   817   390   423   4  0.480   187.085   -6.2028   157.1702
                      172  Rader, Doug           1983  1991   806   388   417   1  0.482   187.011    9.2978   159.1071
                      173  Lachemann, Rene       1981  2002   991   430   561   0  0.434   186.579  -50.1108   119.6715
                      174  Kasko, Eddie          1970  1973   640   345   295   0  0.539   185.977   22.6543   143.8934
                      175  McGunnigle, Bill      1888  1896   586   327   248  11  0.569   185.963   15.6560   100.1875
                      176  Bluege, Ossie         1943  1947   772   375   394   3  0.488   182.867  -15.1654    90.6971
                      177  McRae, Hal            1991  2002   872   399   473   0  0.458   182.570  -36.9734   134.1813
                      178  Callahan, Nixey       1903  1917   866   394   458  14  0.462   182.202  -19.9314   142.2507
                      179  Morrill, John         1882  1889   698   348   336  14  0.509   177.053    3.9970   128.7274
                      180  Marion, Marty         1951  1956   731   356   372   3  0.489   174.088    8.4968   133.0846
                      181  Kelley, Joe           1902  1908   669   338   321  10  0.513   173.360    7.1311   122.1719
                      182  Howley, Dan           1927  1932   926   397   524   5  0.431   171.128  -39.3901   126.7349
                      183  Frey, Jim             1980  1986   611   323   287   1  0.530   171.031   15.6126   126.7376
                      184  Boone, Bob            1995  2003   816   372   444   0  0.456   169.588  -43.2832   103.3171
                      185  Randolph, Willie      2004  2008   556   303   253   0  0.545   165.124   33.2074   124.4054
                      186  Wathan, John          1987  1992   646   326   320   0  0.505   164.514    9.1819   130.2289
                      187  Kennedy, Kevin        1993  1996   582   309   273   0  0.531   164.057    7.8671   123.0720
                      188  Brenly, Bob           2001  2004   565   303   262   0  0.536   162.494   27.5698   120.7526
                      189  Morgan, Joe           1988  1991   563   301   262   0  0.535   160.925   20.4030   129.0329
                      190  Crandall, Del         1972  1984   833   364   469   0  0.437   159.059  -49.5460   105.8255
                      191  Geren, Bob            2007  2011   710   334   376   0  0.470   157.121  -12.4616   128.0728
                      192  Acta, Manny           2007  2012   890   372   518   0  0.418   155.488  -71.6661    90.6887
                      193  Gibbons, John         2003  2009   616   309   307   0  0.502   155.002   17.0235   139.0135
                      194  Garcia, Dave          1975  1982   620   310   310   0  0.500   155.000   -5.9094   109.1919
                      195  Craft, Harry          1957  1964   849   360   485   4  0.426   153.373  -58.1938    96.1417
                      196  Barrow, Ed            1903  1920   639   310   320   9  0.492   152.540    0.7721   123.6302
                      197  Gordon, Joe           1958  1969   615   305   308   2  0.498   151.754  -11.7667    88.1373
                      198  Phillips, Horace      1879  1889   764   338   415  11  0.449   151.718  -16.8872    90.8122
                      199  Tinker, Joe           1913  1916   624   304   308  12  0.497   151.007   15.0455    88.1834
                      200  Vitt, Ossie           1938  1940   462   262   198   2  0.570   149.226   18.3728   100.5510
                      *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

                      Comment


                      • I decided to update the big list. I rolled over everyone's 2007 retirees from their Future HOFers list into the main Hall. Five members of the Class of 2007 enter the Hall of Fame: Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza, and Curt Schilling. Also, Kirby Puckett picks up enough support to join the Hall. Max Carey and Red Faber fall below the 75% line and out of the Hall of Fame here, as does Billy Southworth out of the Hall of Honor.
                        *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

                        Comment


                        • Not to sound bitter, but I just noticed that this thread is 2.5 years old and has over 17,000 views, and yet only 23 people besides me have submitted ballots. Is the problem that coming up with a personal Hall is too much effort? That would be understandable, I suppose, but I would think that a lot more members of this site than 23 have a good idea of who they think belongs in the Hall and who doesn't.
                          *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

                          Comment


                          • I've moved all my eligible "Future Contenders" to my main list. I'm also in the process of shuffling my list as well, so I'll post an update when I'm done with that.

                            Comment


                            • I removed the following from my main list:

                              Babe Adams
                              Wally Berger
                              Ken Boyer
                              Cesar Cedeno
                              Wilbur Cooper
                              Bob Elliott
                              Mark Grace
                              Heinie Groh
                              Tommy John
                              Charley Jones
                              Sparky Lyle
                              Deacon McGuire
                              Minnie Minoso
                              Dale Murphy
                              Lip Pike
                              Del Pratt
                              Urban Shocker
                              Reggie Smith
                              Rusty Staub
                              Ezra Sutton
                              Mickey Vernon
                              Dixie Walker

                              I removed Scott Rolen from my Future Contenders list. I added Miguel Cabrera, Andy Pettitte and Michael Young to my Future Contenders list.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DJC View Post
                                Not to sound bitter, but I just noticed that this thread is 2.5 years old and has over 17,000 views, and yet only 23 people besides me have submitted ballots. Is the problem that coming up with a personal Hall is too much effort? That would be understandable, I suppose, but I would think that a lot more members of this site than 23 have a good idea of who they think belongs in the Hall and who doesn't.
                                Think about it more from a statistical standpoint. Of the 23 who have submitted personal HOFs, each have viewed this thread 100X or more. That is 2300-3000 of the views right there. We also have about 5000 casual users/web traffic/bots/crawlers who might click, look at one thing for a second and move on. That brings us to 7300 views. There are also about 1000 daily viewers who look at the new replies rather than individual forums and briefly click and move on. That brings the number to 17000 views.

                                Comment

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