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  • Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame

    For those of you who have already made your own personal baseball Hall of Fame and for those who would like to, here's a thread where you can post it in one big all-time HOF ballot. Each player on someone's all-time HOF ballot will receive a vote, and at the top of the thread, I'll keep a running total of all the votes. As long as a player remains on at least 75% of the ballots, they're in the Single Ballot Baseball Fever Hall of Fame.

    To be eligible for the Single Ballot BBF HOF, players must have been inactive for 5 full seasons (so currently, you can't vote for anyone who's played after 2014). As an option, each voter can include on their ballot a separate list of "Future Eligibles", including any players active after 2014 who you think will be worthy of your personal Hall of Fame when eligible. These votes have no bearing on the Single Ballot BBF HOF. However, when the 2021 BBWAA election results are released, any Future Eligibles on participants' ballots who last played in 2015 will be transferred to the main list, and so on for each subsequent year. Making a list of Future Eligibles is convenient for me and for participants, as it helps to avoid having to update one's personal HOF every year.

    Besides major league players, participants can vote for Negro League players, as well as banned players, pre-1876 players, and/or international players. If a voter chooses to entirely exclude Negro League play as a criterion for their selections, any Negro Leaguers not on their ballot will not be penalized in the voting (i.e., the Negro Leaguers not on the ballot will be given neither a vote for nor a vote against).

    Voting for contributors is optional. If you wish to vote for contributors (managers, pioneers, executives, umpires, etc.), please keep them separate from the players on your ballot. If you do not have a contributors section on your ballot, I'll treat it as if you're not voting either for or against them. For contributors, there is no 5-season wait, so even active contributors can be voted for. As long as a contributor remains on at least 75% of the ballots that include contributors, they're in the Single Ballot Baseball Fever Hall of Honor, a separate Hall from the one for players.

    Your player list should primarily consider on-the-field contributions and your contributor list should primarily consider off-the-field contributions. If you feel an individual's on- and off-the-field contributions are separately worthy of your Hall, you can include this individual on both your player and contributor lists. If you think an individual is worthy of your Hall based on their on- and off-the-field contributions combined but not based on either separately, you can place the individual either on your player list or your contributor list, depending upon whether you think they contributed more on or off the field.

    One unique thing about this HOF is that players can drift in and out of the Hall depending on their level of support. Please note that this is not designed to contest the results of any other BBF HOF elections; it's just a different way to poll the BBF community about their HOF choices. This thread will remain open so that anyone can add their personal Hall of Fame or edit the one which they already posted. If you do make some edits to your HOF, please post a reply to the thread indicating the changes. I'll recalculate the totals so that the collective HOF stays current.

    The full list of all players and contributors in the real Baseball Hall of Fame can be found here. There are 264 HOFers elected as players and 69 elected as contributors as of 2020.

    ==================================================

    *** LINK TO OFFICIAL TRACKING SPREADSHEET ***

    Votes listed below are as of 9:00 PM ET, Sunday, January 26, 2020.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Numbers code for individual voters
    Name is linked to voter's ballot
    (# of pre-2015 players/Future Eligibles/Contributors)

    01 = Bothrops Atrox (278/25/52)
    02 = Chadwick (328/24/95)
    03 = Tyrus4189Cobb (222/4/33)
    04 = MadHatter (202/0/0)
    05 = Ace Venom (261/0/68)
    06 = jalbright (291/2/85)
    07 = John Shoemaker (334/20/0)
    08 = Cowtipper (329/17/53)
    09 = BlueBlood (268/2/0)
    10 = Nerdlinger (272/29/24)
    11 = jjpm74 (284/20/81)
    12 = Los Bravos (286/6/68)
    13 = stejay (243/0/0)
    14 = Domenic (215/0/0)
    15 = hairmetalfreek (293/13/0)
    16 = Sockeye (201/5/0)
    17 = Jar of Flies (293/23/94)
    18 = Cougar (585/37/191)
    19 = wrgptfan (179/0/0)
    20 = bluesky5 (282/22/254)
    21 = leecemark (287/3/40)
    22 = Ducati12 (253/3/0)
    23 = AstrosFan (232/3/0)
    24 = henrich (265/2/0)
    25 = EnterSandman (211/4/0)
    26 = SavoyBG (308/2/0)
    27 = baltimorechop (255/0/0)
    28 = Richard Stark (360/7/58)
    29 = dgarza (314/10/0)
    30 = blade1969 (231/2/0)
    31 = JR Hart (279/13/0)
    32 = Herr28 (341/0/35)
    33 = The Dude (298/8/103)
    34 = TheMendozaLine (281/0/0)
    35 = Yankillaz (320/5/37)
    36 = 1905 Giants (240/0/0)
    37 = adarowski (226/0/0)
    38 = Second Base Coach (336/33/0)
    39 = TheSlaff (265/30/82)
    40 = layson27 (265/0/0)
    41 = Toledo Inquisition (244/7/0)
    42 = RapDixon (287/0/71)
    43 = dwj21792 (141/7/23)
    44 = pedrosrotatorcuff (272/28/71)
    45 = Stieb37 (630/51/173)
    46 = NJRob65 (200/16/56)


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Key to Tables
    * = elected to the real HOF as a player
    ° = elected to the real HOF as a contributor
    ^ = played in the Negro Leagues (player lists only)
    ~ = active player (futures list only)
    " = primarily a manager (contributor lists only)
    From-To = 1st and last seasons in the majors
    Tm = team with the most games played
    Pos = position with the most games played
    ›‹ = a vote for
    [blank] = a vote against
    -- = neither a vote for nor against
    (right click table and select View Image for full size)

    ==================================================

    The Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame
    SBHOF20200126-HOF.png




    Non-HOF Players in the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame (17):

    Dick Allen, Barry Bonds, Ken Boyer, Bob Caruthers, Roger Clemens, Bill Dahlen, Dwight Evans, Bobby Grich, Todd Helton, Keith Hernandez, Jeff Kent, Minnie Minoso, Manny Ramirez, Scott Rolen, Pete Rose, Curt Schilling, Lou Whitaker

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Players With Less Than 75% Support

    https://i.imgur.com/MnqDqit.png

    HOF Players with Less Than 75% Support (68):

    Luis Aparicio, Earl Averill, Harold Baines, Dave Bancroft, Jake Beckley, Chief Bender, Jim Bottomley, Roger Bresnahan, Lou Brock, Orlando Cepeda, Frank Chance, Jack Chesbro, Earle Combs, Andy Cooper, Kiki Cuyler, Ray Dandridge, Leon Day, Hugh Duffy, Johnny Evers, Rick Ferrell, Rollie Fingers, Bill Foster, Nellie Fox, Lefty Gomez, Burleigh Grimes, Chick Hafey, Jesse Haines, Pete Hill, Trevor Hoffman, Harry Hooper, Waite Hoyt, Catfish Hunter, Travis Jackson, Judy Johnson, Addie Joss, George Kell, Joe Kelley, High Pockets Kelly, Chuck Klein, Tony Lazzeri, Freddie Lindstrom, Ernie Lombardi, Heinie Manush, Rabbit Maranville, Rube Marquard, Bill Mazeroski, Tommy McCarthy, Jack Morris, Herb Pennock, Tony Perez, Jim Rice, Sam Rice, Eppa Rixey, Phil Rizzuto, Edd Roush, Ray Schalk, Red Schoendienst, Joe Sewell, Lee Smith, Bruce Sutter, Ben Taylor, Joe Tinker, Pie Traynor, Lloyd Waner, Mickey Welch, Vic Willis, Hack Wilson, Ross Youngs

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Future Eligibles
    (Played in 2015 or later)
    SBHOF20200126-FE.png




    Future Eligibles with 75%+ Support (7):

    Carlos Beltran, Adrian Beltre, Miguel Cabrera, Clayton Kershaw, Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez, Ichiro Suzuki

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Single Ballot BBF Hall of Honor
    (For contributors)
    SBHOF20200126-HOH.png




    Non-HOF Contributors in the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Honor (0)

    [none]

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Contributors With Less Than 75% Support

    https://i.imgur.com/yRESiM1.png

    HOF Contributors with Less Than 75% Support (32):

    Al Barlick, Morgan Bulkeley, Alexander Cartwright, Happy Chandler, Nestor Chylak, Charlie Comiskey, Jocko Conlan, Tom Connolly, Candy Cummings, Barney Dreyfuss, Billy Evans, Ford Frick, Warren Giles, Clark Griffith, Will Harridge, Bucky Harris, Doug Harvey, Cal Hubbard, Bowie Kuhn, Al Lopez, Lee MacPhail, Effa Manley, Bill McGowan, Hank O'Day, Alex Pompez, Wilbert Robinson, Jacob Ruppert, John Schuerholz, Bud Selig, Billy Southworth, George Wright, Tom Yawkey

    ==================================================

    Evolution of the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame

    https://i.imgur.com/zGkhtQO.png

    ==================================================




    History of Updates (0 is the original HOF)
    Code:
    0) 2010-04-16-1700
    1) 2010-04-21-1600
    2) 2010-04-21-1800
    3) 2010-05-28-2000
    4) 2010-06-01-2300
    5) 2010-06-02-2100
    6) 2010-06-03-2200
    7) 2010-06-24-1400
    8) 2010-07-02-1300
    9) 2010-07-04-1300
    10) 2010-07-06-1400
    11) 2010-10-15-1300
    12) 2010-10-15-1900
    13) 2010-10-19-1900
    14) 2010-11-13-1800
    15) 2010-11-16-2000
    16) 2010-11-23-1500
    17) 2010-11-29-2100
    18) 2011-04-23-1700
    19) 2011-09-18-1700
    20) 2011-09-21-1700
    21) 2011-09-21-2200
    22) 2011-10-06-2100
    23) 2012-01-06-1100
    24) 2012-01-23-2300
    25) 2012-10-26-1700
    26) 2012-11-16-1100
    27) 2013-01-23-2130
    28) 2013-02-17-2245
    29) 2013-02-19-1545
    30) 2013-02-20-0000
    31) 2013-02-21-1800
    32) 2013-04-24-2230
    33) 2013-05-17-1700
    34) 2013-09-05-1000
    35) 2013-10-04-2100
    36) 2013-12-01-1400
    37) 2014-01-09-2330
    38) 2014-03-28-2215
    39) 2014-04-06-1730
    40) 2014-07-18-2330
    41) 2014-08-10-0130
    42) 2014-10-05-0015
    43) 2014-11-23-1230
    44) 2014-12-25-1130
    45) 2015-04-25-1600
    46) 2015-11-04-2100
    47) 2016-02-21-1415
    48) 2016-05-27-1700
    49) 2016-11-13-0000
    50) 2017-02-09-1800
    51) 2017-11-12-1500
    52) 2018-10-07-2200
    53) 2019-01-27-2000
    54) 2020-01-26-2100
    Current Franchises
    ARI = Arizona Diamondbacks (NL 1998- )
    BLA/NYY = Baltimore Orioles/New York Yankees (AL 1901- )
    BOS = Boston Red Sox (AL 1901- )
    BRO/LAD = Brooklyn/Los Angeles Dodgers (AA-NL 1884- )
    BSN/MLN/ATL = Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves (NL 1876- )
    CHC = Chicago Cubs (NL 1876- )
    CHW = Chicago White Sox (AL 1901- )
    CIN = Cincinnati Reds (AA-NL 1882- )
    CLE = Cleveland Indians (AL 1901- )
    COL = Colorado Rockies (NL 1993- )
    DET = Detroit Tigers (AL 1901- )
    FLA/MIA = Florida/Miami Marlins (NL 1993- )
    HOU = Houston Astros (NL-AL 1962- )
    KCR = Kansas City Royals (AL 1969- )
    LAA/CAL/ANA = Los Angeles/California/Anaheim Angels (AL 1961- )
    MLA/SLB/BAL = Milwaukee Brewers/St. Louis Browns/Baltimore Orioles (AL 1901- )
    MON/WSN = Montreal Expos/Washington Nationals (NL 1969- )
    NYG/SFG = New York/San Francisco Giants (NL 1883- )
    NYM = New York Mets (NL 1962- )
    PHA/KCA/OAK = Philadelphia/Kansas City/Oakland Athletics (AL 1901- )
    PHI = Philadelphia Phillies (NL 1883- )
    PIT = Pittsburgh Pirates (AA-NL 1882- )
    SDP = San Diego Padres (NL 1969- )
    SEA = Seattle Mariners (AL 1977- )
    SEP/MIL = Seattle Pilots/Milwaukee Brewers (AL-NL 1969- )
    STL = St. Louis Cardinals (AA-NL 1882- )
    TBR = Tampa Bay Rays (AL 1998- )
    TOR = Toronto Blue Jays (AL 1977- )
    WSA/TEX = Washington Senators/Texas Rangers (AL 1961- )
    WSH/MIN = Washington Senators/Minnesota Twins (AL 1901- )

    Defunct Franchises
    ATH = Philadelphia Athletics (NL 1876)
    BLO = Baltimore Orioles (AA-NL 1882-1899)
    BUF = Buffalo Bisons (NL 1879-1885)
    CBL = Cleveland Blues (NL 1879-1884)
    CLV = Cleveland Spiders (AA-NL 1887-1899)
    CNR = Cincinnati Reds (NL 1876-1880)
    DTN = Detroit Wolverines (NL 1881-1888)
    HAR = Hartford Dark Blues (NL 1876-1877)
    LOU = Louisville Colonels (AA-NL 1882-1899)
    NYP = New York Metropolitans (AA 1883-1887)
    PAA = Philadelphia Athletics (AA 1882-1890)
    PRO = Providence Grays (NL 1878-1885)
    SBS = St. Louis Brown Stockings (NL 1876-1877)
    SYR = Syracuse Stars (NL 1879)
    TOL = Toledo Blue Stockings (AA 1884)
    TRT = Troy Trojans (NL 1879-1882)
    WAS = Washington Senators (AA-NL 1891-1899)
    WNA = Washington Nationals (UA 1884)
    WNL = Washington Nationals (NL 1886-1889)
    Last edited by Nerdlinger; 02-03-2020, 09:19 PM.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  • #2
    Here is my "add" list. I'll post my "subtract" list soon. I am sure there are some negro league omissions, but am not sure how to evaluate NL HOF worthiness for those not already in - so I will not take any out or add any in, especially after so many worthy candidates went in a few years ago.

    Ron Santo
    Barry Larkin
    Roberto Alomar
    Bobby Grich
    Sal Bando
    Lou Whitaker
    Darrel Evans
    Dick Allen
    Sherry Magee
    Stan Hack
    Graig Nettles
    Dwight Evans
    Willie Randolph
    Ken Boyer
    Minnie Minnoso
    Edgar Martinez
    Alan Trammel
    Keith Hernandez
    Will Clark
    Jack Glasscock
    Bill Dahlen
    Ted Simmons
    Joe Torre
    Bert Blyleven
    Rick Rueschel
    Tony Mullane
    Bob Caruthers
    Bret Saberhagen
    Dave Stieb
    Billy Pierce
    Tommy Bridges
    Wes Ferrell
    Luis Tiant
    Tommy John
    Urban Shocker
    Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 04-17-2010, 11:02 AM.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

    Comment


    • #3
      Here is my "out" list. I am sure I missed a person or two. Hope I got it.


      Andy Cooper
      Johnny Evers
      George Wright
      Freddie Lidstrom
      Chick Hafey
      Jim Bottomley
      George Kell
      Bill Mazerowski
      Ernie Lombardi
      George Kelly
      Rick Ferrell
      Miller Huggins
      Ross Youngs
      Pie Traynor
      Rabbit Maranville
      Hack Wilson
      Lou Brock
      Chuck Klein
      Red Shoendienst
      Roger Bresnehan
      Jim Rice
      Phil Rizzuto
      Travis Jackson
      Heinie Manush
      Nellie Foxx
      Earl Combs
      Dave Bancroft
      Sam Thompson
      Orlando Cepeda
      Edd Roush
      Hughie Jennings
      Joe Tinker
      Tommy McCarthy
      Ray Shcalk
      Kiki Cuyler
      Luis Apparicio
      Tony Perez
      Sam Rice
      Harry Hooper
      Mickey Welch
      Waite Hoyt
      Lefty Gomez
      Dizzy Dean
      Addie Joss
      Chief Bender
      Burleigh Grimes
      Herb Pennock
      Bruce Sutter
      Rollie Fingers
      Jesse Haines
      Jack Chesbro
      Catfish Hunter
      Rube Marquard
      Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 04-17-2010, 11:06 AM.
      1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

      1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

      1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


      The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
      The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

      Comment


      • #4
        Cool, thanks for the vote. I'm going to wait for a few more ballots before I start totaling them. Remember, your ballot isn't set in stone; you can change it in the future if you like.
        *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

        Comment


        • #5
          @STLCards2: In your list of players to remove, you have George Wright and Miller Huggins. Both of them were elected to the real HOF not as players but as contributors (Wright as pioneer/executive and Huggins as manager). Did you mean to remove them for their playing skills or what they've contributed as non-players?
          *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DJC View Post
            @STLCards2: In your list of players to remove, you have George Wright and Miller Huggins. Both of them were elected to the real HOF not as players but as contributors (Wright as pioneer/executive and Huggins as manager). Did you mean to remove them for their playing skills or what they've contributed as non-players?
            Bith had enough career PA,s that I included them as players - definitely do not want them in the Hall as players.
            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

            Comment


            • #7
              Chadwick's Personal Hall of Fame
              (Last updated November 17, 2020)

              480 total honorees
              473 total individuals honored (7 honored in multiple capacities*)
              363 players inducted
              35 future player inductees ("NYE" = Not Yet Eligible)
              117 (non-playing) contributors inducted


              Pitchers (108/7)
              Babe Adams
              Pete Alexander
              Kevin Appier
              Akira Bessho
              Bert Blyleven
              Tommy Bond
              Tommy Bridges
              Kevin Brown
              Mordecai Brown
              Ray Brown
              Mark Buehrle
              Charlie Buffinton
              Jim Bunning
              Steve Carlton
              Bob Caruthers
              Eddie Cicotte
              John Clarkson
              Roger Clemens
              David Cone
              Stan Coveleski
              Dizzy Dean
              Martin Dihigo
              Don Drysdale
              Dennis Eckersley
              Yutaka Enatsu
              Red Faber
              Bob Feller
              Wes Ferrell
              Chuck Finley
              Whitey Ford
              Bill Foster
              Rube Foster
              Pud Galvin
              Bob Gibson
              Tom Glavine
              Dwight Gooden
              Goose Gossage
              Zack Greinke - NYE
              Clark Griffith
              Lefty Grove
              Roy Halladay
              Cole Hamels - NYE
              Orel Hershiser
              Carl Hubbell
              Tim Hudson
              Kazuhisa Inao
              Fergie Jenkins
              Tommy John
              Randy Johnson
              Walter Johnson
              Masaichi Kaneda
              Tim Keefe
              Clayton Kershaw - NYE
              Sandy Koufax
              Masaaki Koyama
              Bob Lemon
              Ted Lyons
              Greg Maddux
              Juan Marichal
              Pedro Martinez
              Christy Mathewson
              Jim McCormick
              Joe McGinnity
              Jose Mendez
              Tony Mullane
              Mike Mussina
              Hal Newhouser
              Kid Nichols
              Phil Niekro
              Roy Oswalt
              Satchel Paige
              Jim Palmer
              Gaylord Perry
              Andy Pettitte
              Billy Pierce
              Eddie Plank
              Jack Quinn
              Charley Radbourn
              Dick Redding
              Rick Reuschel
              Mariano Rivera
              Eppa Rixey
              Robin Roberts
              Bullet Rogan
              Nap Rucker
              Red Ruffing
              Amos Rusie
              Nolan Ryan
              CC Sabathia - NYE
              Bret Saberhagen
              Chris Sale - NYE
              Johan Santana
              Max Scherzer - NYE
              Curt Schilling
              Tom Seaver
              Urban Shocker
              Hilton Smith
              John Smoltz
              Warren Spahn
              Al Spalding
              Victor Starffin
              Dave Stieb
              Shigeru Sugishita
              Don Sutton
              Luis Tiant
              Dazzy Vance
              Justin Verlander - NYE
              Rube Waddell
              Ed Walsh
              Bucky Walters
              Hoyt Wilhelm
              Joe Williams
              Vic Willis
              Wilbur Wood
              Early Wynn
              Tetsuya Yoneda
              Cy Young


              Catchers (27/5)
              Johnny Bench
              Charlie Bennett
              Yogi Berra
              Roger Bresnahan
              Roy Campanella
              Gary Carter
              Mickey Cochrane
              Bill Dickey
              Buck Ewing
              Carlton Fisk
              Bill Freehan
              Josh Gibson
              Gabby Hartnett
              Ernie Lombardi
              Biz Mackey
              Russell Martin - NYE
              Joe Mauer – NYE
              Brian McCann - NYE
              Cal McVey
              Yadier Molina – NYE
              Thurman Munson
              Katsuya Nomura
              Mike Piazza
              Jorge Posada
              Buster Posey – NYE
              Ivan Rodriguez
              Louis Santop
              Wally Schang
              Ted Simmons
              Joe Torre
              Quincy Trouppe
              Deacon White


              First Basemen (33/5)
              Dick Allen
              Cap Anson
              Jeff Bagwell
              Jake Beckley
              Dan Brouthers
              Miguel Cabrera – NYE
              Norm Cash
              Frank Chance
              Will Clark
              Roger Connor
              Jimmie Foxx
              Lou Gehrig
              Paul Goldschmidt - NYE
              Hank Greenberg
              Todd Helton
              Keith Hernandez
              Harmon Killebrew
              Buck Leonard
              Willie McCovey
              Fred McGriff
              Mark McGwire
              Johnny Mize
              Eddie Murray
              Hiromitsu Ochiai
              Sadaharu Oh
              John Olerud
              David Ortiz – NYE
              Rafael Palmeiro
              Tony Perez
              Albert Pujols – NYE
              George Sisler
              Joe Start
              Mule Suttles
              Ben Taylor
              Bill Terry
              Frank Thomas
              Jim Thome
              Joey Votto – NYE


              Second Basemen (29/5)
              Newt Allen
              Roberto Alomar
              Ross Barnes
              Craig Biggio
              Robinson Cano – NYE
              Rod Carew
              Cupid Childs
              Eddie Collins
              Bobby Doerr
              Larry Doyle
              Johnny Evers
              Nellie Fox
              Frankie Frisch
              Charlie Gehringer
              Joe Gordon
              Frank Grant
              Bobby Grich
              Billy Herman
              Rogers Hornsby
              Jeff Kent
              Ian Kinsler – NYE
              Nap Lajoie
              Tony Lazzeri
              Bid McPhee
              Joe Morgan
              Dustin Pedroia – NYE
              Willie Randolph
              Hardy Richardson
              Jackie Robinson
              Ryne Sandberg
              Tubby Scales
              Chase Utley – NYE
              Lou Whitaker
              Ben Zobrist - NYE

              Third Basemen (27/6)
              Nolan Arenado - NYE
              Home Run Baker
              Sal Bando
              Buddy Bell
              Adrian Beltre – NYE
              Wade Boggs
              Ken Boyer
              George Brett
              Ron Cey
              Jimmy Collins
              Josh Donaldson - NYE
              Bob Elliott
              Darrell Evans
              Heinie Groh
              Stan Hack
              Chipper Jones
              Evan Longoria - NYE
              Manny Machado - NYE
              Edgar Martinez
              Eddie Mathews
              John McGraw
              Paul Molitor
              Shigeo Nagashima
              Graig Nettles
              Brooks Robinson
              Scott Rolen
              Ron Santo
              Mike Schmidt
              Ezra Sutton
              Pie Traynor
              Robin Ventura
              Jud Wilson
              David Wright – NYE


              Shortstops (35/2)
              Luis Aparicio
              Luke Appling
              Ernie Banks
              John Beckwith
              Lou Boudreau
              Bert Campaneris
              Perucho Cepeda
              Bus Clarkson
              Joe Cronin
              Bill Dahlen
              George Davis
              Art Fletcher
              Jim Fregosi
              Nomar Garciaparra
              Jack Glasscock
              Hughie Jennings
              Derek Jeter
              Home Run Johnson
              Barry Larkin
              Pop Lloyd
              Dick Lundy
              Pee Wee Reese
              Cal Ripken
              Alex Rodriguez – NYE
              Joe Sewell
              Ozzie Smith
              Vern Stephens
              Joe Tinker
              Alan Trammell
              Troy Tulowitzki - NYE
              Arky Vaughan
              Honus Wagner
              Bobby Wallace
              John Ward
              Willie Wells
              George Wright
              Robin Yount


              Left Fielders (35/1)
              Albert Belle
              Lance Berkman
              Barry Bonds
              Ryan Braun - NYE
              Lou Brock
              Jesse Burkett
              Fred Clarke
              Jose Cruz
              Ed Delahanty
              Goose Goslin
              Isao Harimoto
              Rickey Henderson
              Monte Irvin
              Bob Johnson
              Charlie Keller
              Joe Kelley
              Ralph Kiner
              Sherry Magee
              Joe Medwick
              Minnie Minoso
              Stan Musial
              Jim O’Rourke
              Tony Phillips
              Tim Raines
              Manny Ramirez
              Pete Rose
              Jimmy Sheckard
              Al Simmons
              Willie Stargell
              Harry Stovey
              Bobby Veach
              Zack Wheat
              Roy White
              Ted Williams
              Billy Williams
              Carl Yastrzemski


              Center Fielders (36/2)
              Richie Ashburn
              Earl Averill
              Cool Papa Bell
              Carlos Beltran – NYE
              Willard Brown
              Pete Browning
              Max Carey
              Cesar Cedeno
              Oscar Charleston
              Ty Cobb
              Willie Davis
              Andre Dawson
              Joe DiMaggio
              Larry Doby
              Jim Edmonds
              Yutaka Fukumoto
              George Gore
              Ken Griffey Jr.
              Billy Hamilton
              Pete Hill
              Paul Hines
              Andruw Jones
              Chet Lemon
              Kenny Lofton
              Mickey Mantle
              Willie Mays
              Dale Murphy
              Alejandro Oms
              Lip Pike
              Kirby Puckett
              Luis Salazar
              Duke Snider
              Tris Speaker
              Turkey Stearnes
              Cristobal Torriente
              Mike Trout – NYE
              Bernie Williams
              Jimmy Wynn


              Right Fielders (33/2)
              Hank Aaron
              Bobby Abreu
              Mookie Betts - NYE
              Bobby Bonds
              Roberto Clemente
              Sam Crawford
              Dwight Evans
              Elmer Flick
              Brian Giles
              Vladimir Guerrero
              Tony Gwynn
              Harry Heilmann
              Harry Hooper
              Shoeless Joe Jackson
              Reggie Jackson
              Heavy Johnson
              Al Kaline
              Willie Keeler
              King Kelly
              Hurley McNair
              Tony Oliva
              Mel Ott
              Dave Parker
              Sam Rice
              Frank Robinson
              Babe Ruth
              Gary Sheffield
              Enos Slaughter
              Reggie Smith
              Sammy Sosa
              Ichiro Suzuki – NYE
              Sam Thompson
              Larry Walker
              Paul Waner
              Dave Winfield


              Managers (60)
              Walter Alston
              Sparky Anderson
              Cap Anson
              Dusty Baker
              Bruce Bochy
              Fred Clarke
              Bobby Cox
              Leo Durocher
              Terry Francona
              Ned Hanlon
              Bucky Harris
              Vic Harris
              Whitey Herzog
              Ralph Houk
              Miller Huggins
              Davey Johnson
              Tetsuharu Kawakami
              Tony La Russa
              Tommy Lasorda
              Jim Leyland
              Al Lopez
              Connie Mack
              Joe Maddon
              Billy Martin
              Joe McCarthy
              John McGraw
              Bill McKechnie
              Shigeru Mizuhara
              Danny Murtaugh
              Lou Piniella
              Mike Scioscia
              Frank Selee
              Billy Southworth
              Casey Stengel
              Candy Jim Taylor
              Joe Torre
              Kazuto Tsuruoka
              Earl Weaver
              Dick Williams
              Harry Wright


              Executives/Pioneers (57)
              Doc Adams
              Sandy Alderson
              Ed Barrow
              Buzzie Bavasi
              Billy Beane
              Ed Bolden
              Sam Breadon
              Joe Brown
              Brian Cashman
              Henry Chadwick
              Happy Chandler
              Charles Comiskey
              Jim Creighton
              Harry Dalton
              Bill DeWitt Jr.
              Dave Dombrowski
              Barney Dreyfuss
              Jack Dunn
              Theo Epstein
              Charlie Finley
              Rube Foster
              Ford Frick
              Pat Gillick
              Clark Griffith
              John Henry
              John Heydler
              Bob Howsam
              William Hulbert
              Bill James
              Walt Jocketty
              Ban Johnson
              Kenesaw Landis
              Larry MacPhail
              Marvin Miller
              David Neft
              Lefty O’Doul
              Walter O’Malley
              Alex Pompez
              Cum Posey
              Al Reach
              Branch Rickey
              Jacob Ruppert
              Brian Sabean
              John Schuerholz
              Bud Selig
              Matsutaro Shoriki
              Arthur Soden
              Al Spalding
              J.G. Taylor Spink
              George Steinbrenner
              C.I. Taylor
              Bill Veeck
              Louis Wadsworth
              George Weiss
              William Wheaton
              J.L. Wilkinson
              Nicholas Young

              *Elected separately as both a player and a manager - Cap Anson, Fred Clarke, John McGraw, Joe Torre
              *Elected separately as both a player and a executive - Rube Foster, Clark Griffith, Al Spalding
              Last edited by Chadwick; 11-18-2020, 04:35 PM.
              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jaxxr
                Shoeless Joe Jackson would be on my "add" list,
                what may or may not not have happened some 90 years ago, could be let go, and Joe is dead, he could be "foregiven" if one is so knowing as to be absolutely 100% positve of what happened in the past.

                To drop Addie Joss is vastly unkind, his untimely death in the prime of life, at the age of 31, should allow some special consideration,
                however his actual MLB stats are very HOF worthy, without any special consideration;
                Joss has the best WHIP of any pitcher ever !
                Joss has the second best ERA of all time !
                Joss has the fourth best ERA + of any HOF starting pitcher !
                Joss has the best control via BB/9, of any 20th century pitcher !
                Joss has the second best shutout percentage of any HOF hurler.
                Joss has an outstanding .623 W-L %.
                It's your personal HOF which you'd be submitting on your ballot, so if you want to keep Joss in the HOF and/or add Shoeless Joe, that's perfectly fine.
                *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Commissioner
                  STLCards2, I'm not trying to be hyper-critical here (rather I just want to start a baseball debate), but I was wondering how you could possibly justify placing Gene Tenace in the Hall of Fame while removing such greats as Pie Traynor, Heinie Manush, and Mickey Welch? Does the 1972 World Series hold that much sway in your vote, or are there other reasons that I'm missing? This is coming from someone who was a big fan of Tenace's, by the way. The choice just seems perplexing to me.
                  Advanced metrics (esp. WAR) show Tennace as one of the 11-12 greatest catcher ever, and guys like Manush and Traynor being vastly overrated (I am researching to see if WAR is whiffing on Traynor - I wouldn't be surprised if I don't add him back in soon). Welch is not a guy who a large majority of guys feel is a HOFer anyway - without the 300 wins, he wouldn't be considered close. A 112 ERA+ with the number of innings he threw in that era is nothing remarkable. If Welch, why not King or McCormick? I didn't know Manush was supported by many at all. And Tennace is very borderline for me - I could take him out.

                  Also, the HOF as is has a large unbalance of guys elected from pre-WW2, despite housing less than half of the players and no NL or international players like today. I am not saying that HOF talent is evenly distributed perfectly over the decades, but I will never believe that most of those 16 teams had 3-4HOFers on them at a time (more than that from the 1800's) Some from that era have to go, and some "forgotten" guys from the 1970-/1980's should be included. In a 16 team league, there "should" be about 12 HOF players. In a 30 team league, there "should" be about 21 players (again, I am not supporting a perfect bell-curve, but something resembling more of a downward slope is not acceptable). However, according to the way that the HOF is in its current state, the opposite is true. The HOF (sse Vet. Commit.) greatly overrated high average in high average-era guys in lesser positions like Manush and severely underrated great defense, solid offense, great positional adjustment guys from low scoring eras, like Grich, Wynn, and Willie Randolph. I am adjusting for that accordingly. I understand people's disagreements, but I certainly have my reasoning.
                  Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 04-15-2010, 03:46 PM.
                  1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                  1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

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                  The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Commissioner
                    One of the top 12 catchers ever?

                    I have to believe that WAR is giving him a disproportionate amount of wins as a residual result of being the catcher for a great dynasty rather than accurately accounting for how much he contributed to those great teams.

                    As for Manush's lack of support, you are absolutely correct in your observation that he hasn't been supported by many. However, he should be. While I understand that people want to discount players who hit for a high batting average in an era of higher averages, when players are among the top hitters in their league, I would think that would translate into greatness across eras. You can say that relative to modern players his .330 batting average is disproportionately high, but it was still one of the top averages from his era.
                    WAR cares nothing about the team he is on - in fact WAR is created to eliminate all factors outside of a player's own control. Here is a link:http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/playerindex.htm

                    As far as Manush, his OPS+ was 121. He played left field (and not very well), didn't run, and his average is only .04 points higher than league average (.290). It would be like a below average fielding and running LF today who hits .315 with only moderate power. Good player, but no HOFer. He couldn't even get 10% support from the BBWAA. Those who saw him closest didn't even feel he was close and advanced stats say he wasn't close. When both sides of the spectrum agree like that (not to mention a vast majority of the spectrum crossing members here), it is a closed case, in my book.

                    More on Welch: he did finish in the top 5 in ERA 3 times (not very strong in itself), but considering there were less than 20 regular starters during those years, a HOF argument is pretty difficult.
                    Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 04-15-2010, 05:08 PM.
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Surely I can't be the first to have said this, but, "WAR: what is it good for?" (Seriously, I have no opinion on the statistic.) Anyway, if we get one more participant, I'll start listing the running totals in the first post.
                      *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Commissioner
                        . However, as the be all and end all for deciding where players rank all-time? No. I'm definitely not buying that in the least bit.
                        I have never seen anyone say that WAR was a "end all". It is one of the tools I put a lot of emphasis on. Sorry if you don't "buy it". I would encourage that you find out how it works first before you discount it completely.
                        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Commissioner
                          I'm not "discounting it completely". On the contrary, I obviously didn't explain myself well enough in my last post. I attempted to say that it may have its uses, but shouldn't be held in such high regard. "Accepting it completely" and "discounting it completely" are far from being the same thing.

                          Please also keep in mind that while I admit I do not understand all the intricacies of the WAR system, I am not ,as it sounds as if you mean to imply, ignorant of how it supposedly works completely. I am simply stating that I have not studied it as in-depth as most members here. Therefore I can't off the top of my head point to "data point X" and say "this is precisely the point where we disagree". I just can see on a cursory glance of the resulting list on the link I was provided with, a great degree of dissonance between what makes any logical sense to anyone who knows their baseball history and what the list provides. It is not a in any way a complete "either/or" proposition.

                          Educate me. Please. I would love for someone to illuminate me as to how Gene Tenace in any way, shape, or form was a better ballplayer than Jim Rice. Like I said, I watched Gene Tenace and thought he was underrated at the time. I was a fan of his and appreciated his play. Yet at no point did I ever believe or do I recall anyone in the game ever considering Tenace to be a better ballplayer than Jim Rice or Thurman Munson. I'm not saying this to try to sound sarcastic. I seriously do want someone to educate me as to how Tenace can be viewed as a better ballplayer. Break it down for me. I want to try to understand this so that I can either be won over by more enlightened evidence or at least refute it from an angle that is better informed.
                          Most defensive sysytems have both players very similar in terms of defensive ability, and both had an equal number of AB's. However, Tennace created 266 runs compared to replacement player compared to Munson's 110. More of Munsons' PAs came as a catcher, so that closes the gap. According to WAR, that is why Tennace is 4-5 WAR over Munson. This shouldn't be surprising considering that Tenace had a 131 OPS+ compared to Munson's 116. The only thing keeping Tenace from being an easy HOFer in my minds that he played so much at 1B. However, for a guy to play 900 games at C and maintain a 130+ OPS+ is in the discussion for me- as is Munson. The biggest culprit that hurt Tenaces' reputation was the fact that walks were still very underrated back then, and he was an absolute walk machine. If Tenace were a 00's player, he would have gotten much more love, as things like OB% are part of the mainstream lexicon now. Like I said, I may take him out upon further review.
                          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Commissioner
                            It appears as if most of the disagreement stems from how much value to give to walks. Tenace was a base on balls machine and deserves a lot of credit for that and a lot more recognition than he received. However, having watched him play, I can't imagine a manager on the planet if given his choice choosing to take Tenace and his superior OB% over Bench, Munson, or Gary Carter. Tenace has an OPS+ ten points higher than even Johnny Bench. That may make Tenace seem close to Bench on paper, yet they were worlds apart on the diamond.
                            Who suggested Tenace over Bench or Carter? Bench and Carter are top 5 all-time catchers. And where did anyone suggest that OB% alone is enough to rank anybody higher than anyone else? Tennace edges Munson because they are about the same defensively and Tenace obliterates Munson in terms of OB% and OPS - Munsons makes most of that up by playing more time at C than Tenace. But Tenace doesn't have to be Bench or even Carter to sneek (barely) into the HOF. He just needs to beat out the Shalks, Shangs, Lombardi's Freehans, and Munson's out there which I think he does (for now at least). You have asked for my reasoning, which I have provided. We disagree, which is great for the spirit of the forum, but I don't think this was intended to be a player worthiness debate thread, so maybe we can move on - but don't be surprised to see Tenace removed some time, with some other players added (like Traynor or Joss) and some more eliminated (like Sewell for example).
                            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by STLCards2 View Post
                              We disagree, which is great for the spirit of the forum, but I don't think this was intended to be a player worthiness debate thread, so maybe we can move on.
                              It's fine if you'd like to discuss the merits of your choices for your and others' HOFs; in fact, I encourage it, as it helps keep the thread alive. Just keep the debates friendly, that's all I ask.
                              Last edited by Nerdlinger; 04-16-2010, 07:05 AM.
                              *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

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