Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame

[Nerdlinger]

For those of you who have already made your own personal baseball Hall of Fame and for those who would like to, here's a thread where you can post it in one big all-time HOF ballot. Each player on someone's all-time HOF ballot will receive a vote, and at the top of the thread, I'll keep a running total of all the votes. As long as a player remains on at least 75% of the ballots, they're in the Single Ballot Baseball Fever Hall of Fame.

To be eligible for the Single Ballot BBF HOF, players must have been inactive for 5 full seasons (so currently, you can't vote for anyone who's played after 2014). As an option, each voter can include on their ballot a separate list of "Future Eligibles", including any players active after 2014 who you think will be worthy of your personal Hall of Fame when eligible. These votes have no bearing on the Single Ballot BBF HOF. However, when the 2021 BBWAA election results are released, any Future Eligibles on participants' ballots who last played in 2015 will be transferred to the main list, and so on for each subsequent year. Making a list of Future Eligibles is convenient for me and for participants, as it helps to avoid having to update one's personal HOF every year.

Besides major league players, participants can vote for Negro League players, as well as banned players, pre-1876 players, and/or international players. If a voter chooses to entirely exclude Negro League play as a criterion for their selections, any Negro Leaguers not on their ballot will not be penalized in the voting (i.e., the Negro Leaguers not on the ballot will be given neither a vote for nor a vote against).

Voting for contributors is optional. If you wish to vote for contributors (managers, pioneers, executives, umpires, etc.), please keep them separate from the players on your ballot. If you do not have a contributors section on your ballot, I'll treat it as if you're not voting either for or against them. For contributors, there is no 5-season wait, so even active contributors can be voted for. As long as a contributor remains on at least 75% of the ballots that include contributors, they're in the Single Ballot Baseball Fever Hall of Honor, a separate Hall from the one for players.

Your player list should primarily consider on-the-field contributions and your contributor list should primarily consider off-the-field contributions. If you feel an individual's on- and off-the-field contributions are separately worthy of your Hall, you can include this individual on both your player and contributor lists. If you think an individual is worthy of your Hall based on their on- and off-the-field contributions combined but not based on either separately, you can place the individual either on your player list or your contributor list, depending upon whether you think they contributed more on or off the field.

One unique thing about this HOF is that players can drift in and out of the Hall depending on their level of support. Please note that this is not designed to contest the results of any other BBF HOF elections; it's just a different way to poll the BBF community about their HOF choices. This thread will remain open so that anyone can add their personal Hall of Fame or edit the one which they already posted. If you do make some edits to your HOF, please post a reply to the thread indicating the changes. I'll recalculate the totals so that the collective HOF stays current.

The full list of all players and contributors in the real Baseball Hall of Fame can be found here. There are 264 HOFers elected as players and 69 elected as contributors as of 2020.

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*** LINK TO OFFICIAL TRACKING SPREADSHEET ***

Votes listed below are as of 9:00 PM ET, Sunday, January 26, 2020.

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Numbers code for individual voters
Name is linked to voter's ballot
(# of pre-2015 players/Future Eligibles/Contributors)

01 = Bothrops Atrox (278/25/52)
02 = Chadwick (328/24/95)
03 = Tyrus4189Cobb (222/4/33)
04 = MadHatter (202/0/0)
05 = Ace Venom (261/0/68)
06 = jalbright (291/2/85)
07 = John Shoemaker (334/20/0)
08 = Cowtipper (329/17/53)
09 = BlueBlood (268/2/0)
10 = Nerdlinger (272/29/24)
11 = jjpm74 (284/20/81)
12 = Los Bravos (286/6/68)
13 = stejay (243/0/0)
14 = Domenic (215/0/0)
15 = hairmetalfreek (293/13/0)
16 = Sockeye (201/5/0)
17 = Jar of Flies (293/23/94)
18 = Cougar (585/37/191)
19 = wrgptfan (179/0/0)
20 = bluesky5 (282/22/254)
21 = leecemark (287/3/40)
22 = Ducati12 (253/3/0)
23 = AstrosFan (232/3/0)
24 = henrich (265/2/0)
25 = EnterSandman (211/4/0)
26 = SavoyBG (308/2/0)
27 = baltimorechop (255/0/0)
28 = Richard Stark (360/7/58)
29 = dgarza (314/10/0)
30 = blade1969 (231/2/0)
31 = JR Hart (279/13/0)
32 = Herr28 (341/0/35)
33 = The Dude (298/8/103)
34 = TheMendozaLine (281/0/0)
35 = Yankillaz (320/5/37)
36 = 1905 Giants (240/0/0)
37 = adarowski (226/0/0)
38 = Second Base Coach (336/33/0)
39 = TheSlaff (265/30/82)
40 = layson27 (265/0/0)
41 = Toledo Inquisition (244/7/0)
42 = RapDixon (287/0/71)
43 = dwj21792 (141/7/23)
44 = pedrosrotatorcuff (272/28/71)
45 = Stieb37 (630/51/173)
46 = NJRob65 (200/16/56)

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Key to Tables
* = elected to the real HOF as a player
° = elected to the real HOF as a contributor
^ = played in the Negro Leagues (player lists only)
~ = active player (futures list only)
" = primarily a manager (contributor lists only)
From-To = 1st and last seasons in the majors
Tm = team with the most games played
Pos = position with the most games played
›‹ = a vote for
[blank] = a vote against
-- = neither a vote for nor against
(right click table and select View Image for full size)

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The Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame
SBHOF20200126-HOF.png




Non-HOF Players in the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame (17):

Dick Allen, Barry Bonds, Ken Boyer, Bob Caruthers, Roger Clemens, Bill Dahlen, Dwight Evans, Bobby Grich, Todd Helton, Keith Hernandez, Jeff Kent, Minnie Minoso, Manny Ramirez, Scott Rolen, Pete Rose, Curt Schilling, Lou Whitaker

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Players With Less Than 75% Support

https://i.imgur.com/MnqDqit.png

HOF Players with Less Than 75% Support (68):

Luis Aparicio, Earl Averill, Harold Baines, Dave Bancroft, Jake Beckley, Chief Bender, Jim Bottomley, Roger Bresnahan, Lou Brock, Orlando Cepeda, Frank Chance, Jack Chesbro, Earle Combs, Andy Cooper, Kiki Cuyler, Ray Dandridge, Leon Day, Hugh Duffy, Johnny Evers, Rick Ferrell, Rollie Fingers, Bill Foster, Nellie Fox, Lefty Gomez, Burleigh Grimes, Chick Hafey, Jesse Haines, Pete Hill, Trevor Hoffman, Harry Hooper, Waite Hoyt, Catfish Hunter, Travis Jackson, Judy Johnson, Addie Joss, George Kell, Joe Kelley, High Pockets Kelly, Chuck Klein, Tony Lazzeri, Freddie Lindstrom, Ernie Lombardi, Heinie Manush, Rabbit Maranville, Rube Marquard, Bill Mazeroski, Tommy McCarthy, Jack Morris, Herb Pennock, Tony Perez, Jim Rice, Sam Rice, Eppa Rixey, Phil Rizzuto, Edd Roush, Ray Schalk, Red Schoendienst, Joe Sewell, Lee Smith, Bruce Sutter, Ben Taylor, Joe Tinker, Pie Traynor, Lloyd Waner, Mickey Welch, Vic Willis, Hack Wilson, Ross Youngs

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Future Eligibles
(Played in 2015 or later)
SBHOF20200126-FE.png




Future Eligibles with 75%+ Support (7):

Carlos Beltran, Adrian Beltre, Miguel Cabrera, Clayton Kershaw, Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez, Ichiro Suzuki

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The Single Ballot BBF Hall of Honor
(For contributors)
SBHOF20200126-HOH.png




Non-HOF Contributors in the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Honor (0)

[none]

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Contributors With Less Than 75% Support

https://i.imgur.com/yRESiM1.png

HOF Contributors with Less Than 75% Support (32):

Al Barlick, Morgan Bulkeley, Alexander Cartwright, Happy Chandler, Nestor Chylak, Charlie Comiskey, Jocko Conlan, Tom Connolly, Candy Cummings, Barney Dreyfuss, Billy Evans, Ford Frick, Warren Giles, Clark Griffith, Will Harridge, Bucky Harris, Doug Harvey, Cal Hubbard, Bowie Kuhn, Al Lopez, Lee MacPhail, Effa Manley, Bill McGowan, Hank O'Day, Alex Pompez, Wilbert Robinson, Jacob Ruppert, John Schuerholz, Bud Selig, Billy Southworth, George Wright, Tom Yawkey

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Evolution of the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame

https://i.imgur.com/zGkhtQO.png

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History of Updates (0 is the original HOF)

0) 2010-04-16-1700
1) 2010-04-21-1600
2) 2010-04-21-1800
3) 2010-05-28-2000
4) 2010-06-01-2300
5) 2010-06-02-2100
6) 2010-06-03-2200
7) 2010-06-24-1400
8) 2010-07-02-1300
9) 2010-07-04-1300
10) 2010-07-06-1400
11) 2010-10-15-1300
12) 2010-10-15-1900
13) 2010-10-19-1900
14) 2010-11-13-1800
15) 2010-11-16-2000
16) 2010-11-23-1500
17) 2010-11-29-2100
18) 2011-04-23-1700
19) 2011-09-18-1700
20) 2011-09-21-1700
21) 2011-09-21-2200
22) 2011-10-06-2100
23) 2012-01-06-1100
24) 2012-01-23-2300
25) 2012-10-26-1700
26) 2012-11-16-1100
27) 2013-01-23-2130
28) 2013-02-17-2245
29) 2013-02-19-1545
30) 2013-02-20-0000
31) 2013-02-21-1800
32) 2013-04-24-2230
33) 2013-05-17-1700
34) 2013-09-05-1000
35) 2013-10-04-2100
36) 2013-12-01-1400
37) 2014-01-09-2330
38) 2014-03-28-2215
39) 2014-04-06-1730
40) 2014-07-18-2330
41) 2014-08-10-0130
42) 2014-10-05-0015
43) 2014-11-23-1230
44) 2014-12-25-1130
45) 2015-04-25-1600
46) 2015-11-04-2100
47) 2016-02-21-1415
48) 2016-05-27-1700
49) 2016-11-13-0000
50) 2017-02-09-1800
51) 2017-11-12-1500
52) 2018-10-07-2200
53) 2019-01-27-2000
54) 2020-01-26-2100

Current Franchises
ARI = Arizona Diamondbacks (NL 1998- )
BLA/NYY = Baltimore Orioles/New York Yankees (AL 1901- )
BOS = Boston Red Sox (AL 1901- )
BRO/LAD = Brooklyn/Los Angeles Dodgers (AA-NL 1884- )
BSN/MLN/ATL = Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves (NL 1876- )
CHC = Chicago Cubs (NL 1876- )
CHW = Chicago White Sox (AL 1901- )
CIN = Cincinnati Reds (AA-NL 1882- )
CLE = Cleveland Indians (AL 1901- )
COL = Colorado Rockies (NL 1993- )
DET = Detroit Tigers (AL 1901- )
FLA/MIA = Florida/Miami Marlins (NL 1993- )
HOU = Houston Astros (NL-AL 1962- )
KCR = Kansas City Royals (AL 1969- )
LAA/CAL/ANA = Los Angeles/California/Anaheim Angels (AL 1961- )
MLA/SLB/BAL = Milwaukee Brewers/St. Louis Browns/Baltimore Orioles (AL 1901- )
MON/WSN = Montreal Expos/Washington Nationals (NL 1969- )
NYG/SFG = New York/San Francisco Giants (NL 1883- )
NYM = New York Mets (NL 1962- )
PHA/KCA/OAK = Philadelphia/Kansas City/Oakland Athletics (AL 1901- )
PHI = Philadelphia Phillies (NL 1883- )
PIT = Pittsburgh Pirates (AA-NL 1882- )
SDP = San Diego Padres (NL 1969- )
SEA = Seattle Mariners (AL 1977- )
SEP/MIL = Seattle Pilots/Milwaukee Brewers (AL-NL 1969- )
STL = St. Louis Cardinals (AA-NL 1882- )
TBR = Tampa Bay Rays (AL 1998- )
TOR = Toronto Blue Jays (AL 1977- )
WSA/TEX = Washington Senators/Texas Rangers (AL 1961- )
WSH/MIN = Washington Senators/Minnesota Twins (AL 1901- )

Defunct Franchises
ATH = Philadelphia Athletics (NL 1876)
BLO = Baltimore Orioles (AA-NL 1882-1899)
BUF = Buffalo Bisons (NL 1879-1885)
CBL = Cleveland Blues (NL 1879-1884)
CLV = Cleveland Spiders (AA-NL 1887-1899)
CNR = Cincinnati Reds (NL 1876-1880)
DTN = Detroit Wolverines (NL 1881-1888)
HAR = Hartford Dark Blues (NL 1876-1877)
LOU = Louisville Colonels (AA-NL 1882-1899)
NYP = New York Metropolitans (AA 1883-1887)
PAA = Philadelphia Athletics (AA 1882-1890)
PRO = Providence Grays (NL 1878-1885)
SBS = St. Louis Brown Stockings (NL 1876-1877)
SYR = Syracuse Stars (NL 1879)
TOL = Toledo Blue Stockings (AA 1884)
TRT = Troy Trojans (NL 1879-1882)
WAS = Washington Senators (AA-NL 1891-1899)
WNA = Washington Nationals (UA 1884)
WNL = Washington Nationals (NL 1886-1889)

[Bothrops Atrox]

Here is my "add" list. I'll post my "subtract" list soon. I am sure there are some negro league omissions, but am not sure how to evaluate NL HOF worthiness for those not already in - so I will not take any out or add any in, especially after so many worthy candidates went in a few years ago.

Ron Santo
Barry Larkin
Roberto Alomar
Bobby Grich
Sal Bando
Lou Whitaker
Darrel Evans
Dick Allen
Sherry Magee
Stan Hack
Graig Nettles
Dwight Evans
Willie Randolph
Ken Boyer
Minnie Minnoso
Edgar Martinez
Alan Trammel
Keith Hernandez
Will Clark
Jack Glasscock
Bill Dahlen
Ted Simmons
Joe Torre
Bert Blyleven
Rick Rueschel
Tony Mullane
Bob Caruthers
Bret Saberhagen
Dave Stieb
Billy Pierce
Tommy Bridges
Wes Ferrell
Luis Tiant
Tommy John
Urban Shocker

[Bothrops Atrox]

Here is my "out" list. I am sure I missed a person or two. Hope I got it.


Andy Cooper
Johnny Evers
George Wright
Freddie Lidstrom
Chick Hafey
Jim Bottomley
George Kell
Bill Mazerowski
Ernie Lombardi
George Kelly
Rick Ferrell
Miller Huggins
Ross Youngs
Pie Traynor
Rabbit Maranville
Hack Wilson
Lou Brock
Chuck Klein
Red Shoendienst
Roger Bresnehan
Jim Rice
Phil Rizzuto
Travis Jackson
Heinie Manush
Nellie Foxx
Earl Combs
Dave Bancroft
Sam Thompson
Orlando Cepeda
Edd Roush
Hughie Jennings
Joe Tinker
Tommy McCarthy
Ray Shcalk
Kiki Cuyler
Luis Apparicio
Tony Perez
Sam Rice
Harry Hooper
Mickey Welch
Waite Hoyt
Lefty Gomez
Dizzy Dean
Addie Joss
Chief Bender
Burleigh Grimes
Herb Pennock
Bruce Sutter
Rollie Fingers
Jesse Haines
Jack Chesbro
Catfish Hunter
Rube Marquard

[Nerdlinger]

Cool, thanks for the vote. I'm going to wait for a few more ballots before I start totaling them. Remember, your ballot isn't set in stone; you can change it in the future if you like.

[Nerdlinger]

@STLCards2: In your list of players to remove, you have George Wright and Miller Huggins. Both of them were elected to the real HOF not as players but as contributors (Wright as pioneer/executive and Huggins as manager). Did you mean to remove them for their playing skills or what they've contributed as non-players?

[Bothrops Atrox]

@STLCards2: In your list of players to remove, you have George Wright and Miller Huggins. Both of them were elected to the real HOF not as players but as contributors (Wright as pioneer/executive and Huggins as manager). Did you mean to remove them for their playing skills or what they've contributed as non-players?

Bith had enough career PA,s that I included them as players - definitely do not want them in the Hall as players.

[Chadwick]

Chadwick's Personal Hall of Fame
(Last updated November 17, 2020)

480 total honorees
473 total individuals honored (7 honored in multiple capacities*)
363 players inducted
35 future player inductees ("NYE" = Not Yet Eligible)
117 (non-playing) contributors inducted


Pitchers (108/7)
Babe Adams
Pete Alexander
Kevin Appier
Akira Bessho
Bert Blyleven
Tommy Bond
Tommy Bridges
Kevin Brown
Mordecai Brown
Ray Brown
Mark Buehrle
Charlie Buffinton
Jim Bunning
Steve Carlton
Bob Caruthers
Eddie Cicotte
John Clarkson
Roger Clemens
David Cone
Stan Coveleski
Dizzy Dean
Martin Dihigo
Don Drysdale
Dennis Eckersley
Yutaka Enatsu
Red Faber
Bob Feller
Wes Ferrell
Chuck Finley
Whitey Ford
Bill Foster
Rube Foster
Pud Galvin
Bob Gibson
Tom Glavine
Dwight Gooden
Goose Gossage
Zack Greinke - NYE
Clark Griffith
Lefty Grove
Roy Halladay
Cole Hamels - NYE
Orel Hershiser
Carl Hubbell
Tim Hudson
Kazuhisa Inao
Fergie Jenkins
Tommy John
Randy Johnson
Walter Johnson
Masaichi Kaneda
Tim Keefe
Clayton Kershaw - NYE
Sandy Koufax
Masaaki Koyama
Bob Lemon
Ted Lyons
Greg Maddux
Juan Marichal
Pedro Martinez
Christy Mathewson
Jim McCormick
Joe McGinnity
Jose Mendez
Tony Mullane
Mike Mussina
Hal Newhouser
Kid Nichols
Phil Niekro
Roy Oswalt
Satchel Paige
Jim Palmer
Gaylord Perry
Andy Pettitte
Billy Pierce
Eddie Plank
Jack Quinn
Charley Radbourn
Dick Redding
Rick Reuschel
Mariano Rivera
Eppa Rixey
Robin Roberts
Bullet Rogan
Nap Rucker
Red Ruffing
Amos Rusie
Nolan Ryan
CC Sabathia - NYE
Bret Saberhagen
Chris Sale - NYE
Johan Santana
Max Scherzer - NYE
Curt Schilling
Tom Seaver
Urban Shocker
Hilton Smith
John Smoltz
Warren Spahn
Al Spalding
Victor Starffin
Dave Stieb
Shigeru Sugishita
Don Sutton
Luis Tiant
Dazzy Vance
Justin Verlander - NYE
Rube Waddell
Ed Walsh
Bucky Walters
Hoyt Wilhelm
Joe Williams
Vic Willis
Wilbur Wood
Early Wynn
Tetsuya Yoneda
Cy Young


Catchers (27/5)
Johnny Bench
Charlie Bennett
Yogi Berra
Roger Bresnahan
Roy Campanella
Gary Carter
Mickey Cochrane
Bill Dickey
Buck Ewing
Carlton Fisk
Bill Freehan
Josh Gibson
Gabby Hartnett
Ernie Lombardi
Biz Mackey
Russell Martin - NYE
Joe Mauer – NYE
Brian McCann - NYE
Cal McVey
Yadier Molina – NYE
Thurman Munson
Katsuya Nomura
Mike Piazza
Jorge Posada
Buster Posey – NYE
Ivan Rodriguez
Louis Santop
Wally Schang
Ted Simmons
Joe Torre
Quincy Trouppe
Deacon White


First Basemen (33/5)
Dick Allen
Cap Anson
Jeff Bagwell
Jake Beckley
Dan Brouthers
Miguel Cabrera – NYE
Norm Cash
Frank Chance
Will Clark
Roger Connor
Jimmie Foxx
Lou Gehrig
Paul Goldschmidt - NYE
Hank Greenberg
Todd Helton
Keith Hernandez
Harmon Killebrew
Buck Leonard
Willie McCovey
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Johnny Mize
Eddie Murray
Hiromitsu Ochiai
Sadaharu Oh
John Olerud
David Ortiz – NYE
Rafael Palmeiro
Tony Perez
Albert Pujols – NYE
George Sisler
Joe Start
Mule Suttles
Ben Taylor
Bill Terry
Frank Thomas
Jim Thome
Joey Votto – NYE


Second Basemen (29/5)
Newt Allen
Roberto Alomar
Ross Barnes
Craig Biggio
Robinson Cano – NYE
Rod Carew
Cupid Childs
Eddie Collins
Bobby Doerr
Larry Doyle
Johnny Evers
Nellie Fox
Frankie Frisch
Charlie Gehringer
Joe Gordon
Frank Grant
Bobby Grich
Billy Herman
Rogers Hornsby
Jeff Kent
Ian Kinsler – NYE
Nap Lajoie
Tony Lazzeri
Bid McPhee
Joe Morgan
Dustin Pedroia – NYE
Willie Randolph
Hardy Richardson
Jackie Robinson
Ryne Sandberg
Tubby Scales
Chase Utley – NYE
Lou Whitaker
Ben Zobrist - NYE

Third Basemen (27/6)
Nolan Arenado - NYE
Home Run Baker
Sal Bando
Buddy Bell
Adrian Beltre – NYE
Wade Boggs
Ken Boyer
George Brett
Ron Cey
Jimmy Collins
Josh Donaldson - NYE
Bob Elliott
Darrell Evans
Heinie Groh
Stan Hack
Chipper Jones
Evan Longoria - NYE
Manny Machado - NYE
Edgar Martinez
Eddie Mathews
John McGraw
Paul Molitor
Shigeo Nagashima
Graig Nettles
Brooks Robinson
Scott Rolen
Ron Santo
Mike Schmidt
Ezra Sutton
Pie Traynor
Robin Ventura
Jud Wilson
David Wright – NYE


Shortstops (35/2)
Luis Aparicio
Luke Appling
Ernie Banks
John Beckwith
Lou Boudreau
Bert Campaneris
Perucho Cepeda
Bus Clarkson
Joe Cronin
Bill Dahlen
George Davis
Art Fletcher
Jim Fregosi
Nomar Garciaparra
Jack Glasscock
Hughie Jennings
Derek Jeter
Home Run Johnson
Barry Larkin
Pop Lloyd
Dick Lundy
Pee Wee Reese
Cal Ripken
Alex Rodriguez – NYE
Joe Sewell
Ozzie Smith
Vern Stephens
Joe Tinker
Alan Trammell
Troy Tulowitzki - NYE
Arky Vaughan
Honus Wagner
Bobby Wallace
John Ward
Willie Wells
George Wright
Robin Yount


Left Fielders (35/1)
Albert Belle
Lance Berkman
Barry Bonds
Ryan Braun - NYE
Lou Brock
Jesse Burkett
Fred Clarke
Jose Cruz
Ed Delahanty
Goose Goslin
Isao Harimoto
Rickey Henderson
Monte Irvin
Bob Johnson
Charlie Keller
Joe Kelley
Ralph Kiner
Sherry Magee
Joe Medwick
Minnie Minoso
Stan Musial
Jim O’Rourke
Tony Phillips
Tim Raines
Manny Ramirez
Pete Rose
Jimmy Sheckard
Al Simmons
Willie Stargell
Harry Stovey
Bobby Veach
Zack Wheat
Roy White
Ted Williams
Billy Williams
Carl Yastrzemski


Center Fielders (36/2)
Richie Ashburn
Earl Averill
Cool Papa Bell
Carlos Beltran – NYE
Willard Brown
Pete Browning
Max Carey
Cesar Cedeno
Oscar Charleston
Ty Cobb
Willie Davis
Andre Dawson
Joe DiMaggio
Larry Doby
Jim Edmonds
Yutaka Fukumoto
George Gore
Ken Griffey Jr.
Billy Hamilton
Pete Hill
Paul Hines
Andruw Jones
Chet Lemon
Kenny Lofton
Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Dale Murphy
Alejandro Oms
Lip Pike
Kirby Puckett
Luis Salazar
Duke Snider
Tris Speaker
Turkey Stearnes
Cristobal Torriente
Mike Trout – NYE
Bernie Williams
Jimmy Wynn


Right Fielders (33/2)
Hank Aaron
Bobby Abreu
Mookie Betts - NYE
Bobby Bonds
Roberto Clemente
Sam Crawford
Dwight Evans
Elmer Flick
Brian Giles
Vladimir Guerrero
Tony Gwynn
Harry Heilmann
Harry Hooper
Shoeless Joe Jackson
Reggie Jackson
Heavy Johnson
Al Kaline
Willie Keeler
King Kelly
Hurley McNair
Tony Oliva
Mel Ott
Dave Parker
Sam Rice
Frank Robinson
Babe Ruth
Gary Sheffield
Enos Slaughter
Reggie Smith
Sammy Sosa
Ichiro Suzuki – NYE
Sam Thompson
Larry Walker
Paul Waner
Dave Winfield


Managers (60)
Walter Alston
Sparky Anderson
Cap Anson
Dusty Baker
Bruce Bochy
Fred Clarke
Bobby Cox
Leo Durocher
Terry Francona
Ned Hanlon
Bucky Harris
Vic Harris
Whitey Herzog
Ralph Houk
Miller Huggins
Davey Johnson
Tetsuharu Kawakami
Tony La Russa
Tommy Lasorda
Jim Leyland
Al Lopez
Connie Mack
Joe Maddon
Billy Martin
Joe McCarthy
John McGraw
Bill McKechnie
Shigeru Mizuhara
Danny Murtaugh
Lou Piniella
Mike Scioscia
Frank Selee
Billy Southworth
Casey Stengel
Candy Jim Taylor
Joe Torre
Kazuto Tsuruoka
Earl Weaver
Dick Williams
Harry Wright


Executives/Pioneers (57)
Doc Adams
Sandy Alderson
Ed Barrow
Buzzie Bavasi
Billy Beane
Ed Bolden
Sam Breadon
Joe Brown
Brian Cashman
Henry Chadwick
Happy Chandler
Charles Comiskey
Jim Creighton
Harry Dalton
Bill DeWitt Jr.
Dave Dombrowski
Barney Dreyfuss
Jack Dunn
Theo Epstein
Charlie Finley
Rube Foster
Ford Frick
Pat Gillick
Clark Griffith
John Henry
John Heydler
Bob Howsam
William Hulbert
Bill James
Walt Jocketty
Ban Johnson
Kenesaw Landis
Larry MacPhail
Marvin Miller
David Neft
Lefty O’Doul
Walter O’Malley
Alex Pompez
Cum Posey
Al Reach
Branch Rickey
Jacob Ruppert
Brian Sabean
John Schuerholz
Bud Selig
Matsutaro Shoriki
Arthur Soden
Al Spalding
J.G. Taylor Spink
George Steinbrenner
C.I. Taylor
Bill Veeck
Louis Wadsworth
George Weiss
William Wheaton
J.L. Wilkinson
Nicholas Young

*Elected separately as both a player and a manager - Cap Anson, Fred Clarke, John McGraw, Joe Torre
*Elected separately as both a player and a executive - Rube Foster, Clark Griffith, Al Spalding

[Nerdlinger]

Shoeless Joe Jackson would be on my "add" list,
what may or may not not have happened some 90 years ago, could be let go, and Joe is dead, he could be "foregiven" if one is so knowing as to be absolutely 100% positve of what happened in the past.

To drop Addie Joss is vastly unkind, his untimely death in the prime of life, at the age of 31, should allow some special consideration,
however his actual MLB stats are very HOF worthy, without any special consideration;
Joss has the best WHIP of any pitcher ever !
Joss has the second best ERA of all time !
Joss has the fourth best ERA + of any HOF starting pitcher !
Joss has the best control via BB/9, of any 20th century pitcher !
Joss has the second best shutout percentage of any HOF hurler.
Joss has an outstanding .623 W-L %.

It's your personal HOF which you'd be submitting on your ballot, so if you want to keep Joss in the HOF and/or add Shoeless Joe, that's perfectly fine.

[Bothrops Atrox]

STLCards2, I'm not trying to be hyper-critical here (rather I just want to start a baseball debate), but I was wondering how you could possibly justify placing Gene Tenace in the Hall of Fame while removing such greats as Pie Traynor, Heinie Manush, and Mickey Welch? Does the 1972 World Series hold that much sway in your vote, or are there other reasons that I'm missing? This is coming from someone who was a big fan of Tenace's, by the way. The choice just seems perplexing to me.

Advanced metrics (esp. WAR) show Tennace as one of the 11-12 greatest catcher ever, and guys like Manush and Traynor being vastly overrated (I am researching to see if WAR is whiffing on Traynor - I wouldn't be surprised if I don't add him back in soon). Welch is not a guy who a large majority of guys feel is a HOFer anyway - without the 300 wins, he wouldn't be considered close. A 112 ERA+ with the number of innings he threw in that era is nothing remarkable. If Welch, why not King or McCormick? I didn't know Manush was supported by many at all. And Tennace is very borderline for me - I could take him out.

Also, the HOF as is has a large unbalance of guys elected from pre-WW2, despite housing less than half of the players and no NL or international players like today. I am not saying that HOF talent is evenly distributed perfectly over the decades, but I will never believe that most of those 16 teams had 3-4HOFers on them at a time (more than that from the 1800's) Some from that era have to go, and some "forgotten" guys from the 1970-/1980's should be included. In a 16 team league, there "should" be about 12 HOF players. In a 30 team league, there "should" be about 21 players (again, I am not supporting a perfect bell-curve, but something resembling more of a downward slope is not acceptable). However, according to the way that the HOF is in its current state, the opposite is true. The HOF (sse Vet. Commit.) greatly overrated high average in high average-era guys in lesser positions like Manush and severely underrated great defense, solid offense, great positional adjustment guys from low scoring eras, like Grich, Wynn, and Willie Randolph. I am adjusting for that accordingly. I understand people's disagreements, but I certainly have my reasoning.

[Bothrops Atrox]

One of the top 12 catchers ever?

I have to believe that WAR is giving him a disproportionate amount of wins as a residual result of being the catcher for a great dynasty rather than accurately accounting for how much he contributed to those great teams.

As for Manush's lack of support, you are absolutely correct in your observation that he hasn't been supported by many. However, he should be. While I understand that people want to discount players who hit for a high batting average in an era of higher averages, when players are among the top hitters in their league, I would think that would translate into greatness across eras. You can say that relative to modern players his .330 batting average is disproportionately high, but it was still one of the top averages from his era.

WAR cares nothing about the team he is on - in fact WAR is created to eliminate all factors outside of a player's own control. Here is a link:http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/playerindex.htm

As far as Manush, his OPS+ was 121. He played left field (and not very well), didn't run, and his average is only .04 points higher than league average (.290). It would be like a below average fielding and running LF today who hits .315 with only moderate power. Good player, but no HOFer. He couldn't even get 10% support from the BBWAA. Those who saw him closest didn't even feel he was close and advanced stats say he wasn't close. When both sides of the spectrum agree like that (not to mention a vast majority of the spectrum crossing members here), it is a closed case, in my book.

More on Welch: he did finish in the top 5 in ERA 3 times (not very strong in itself), but considering there were less than 20 regular starters during those years, a HOF argument is pretty difficult.

[Nerdlinger]

Surely I can't be the first to have said this, but, "WAR: what is it good for?" (Seriously, I have no opinion on the statistic.) Anyway, if we get one more participant, I'll start listing the running totals in the first post.

[Bothrops Atrox]

. However, as the be all and end all for deciding where players rank all-time? No. I'm definitely not buying that in the least bit.

I have never seen anyone say that WAR was a "end all". It is one of the tools I put a lot of emphasis on. Sorry if you don't "buy it". I would encourage that you find out how it works first before you discount it completely.

[Bothrops Atrox]

I'm not "discounting it completely". On the contrary, I obviously didn't explain myself well enough in my last post. I attempted to say that it may have its uses, but shouldn't be held in such high regard. "Accepting it completely" and "discounting it completely" are far from being the same thing.

Please also keep in mind that while I admit I do not understand all the intricacies of the WAR system, I am not ,as it sounds as if you mean to imply, ignorant of how it supposedly works completely. I am simply stating that I have not studied it as in-depth as most members here. Therefore I can't off the top of my head point to "data point X" and say "this is precisely the point where we disagree". I just can see on a cursory glance of the resulting list on the link I was provided with, a great degree of dissonance between what makes any logical sense to anyone who knows their baseball history and what the list provides. It is not a in any way a complete "either/or" proposition.

Educate me. Please. I would love for someone to illuminate me as to how Gene Tenace in any way, shape, or form was a better ballplayer than Jim Rice. Like I said, I watched Gene Tenace and thought he was underrated at the time. I was a fan of his and appreciated his play. Yet at no point did I ever believe or do I recall anyone in the game ever considering Tenace to be a better ballplayer than Jim Rice or Thurman Munson. I'm not saying this to try to sound sarcastic. I seriously do want someone to educate me as to how Tenace can be viewed as a better ballplayer. Break it down for me. I want to try to understand this so that I can either be won over by more enlightened evidence or at least refute it from an angle that is better informed.

Most defensive sysytems have both players very similar in terms of defensive ability, and both had an equal number of AB's. However, Tennace created 266 runs compared to replacement player compared to Munson's 110. More of Munsons' PAs came as a catcher, so that closes the gap. According to WAR, that is why Tennace is 4-5 WAR over Munson. This shouldn't be surprising considering that Tenace had a 131 OPS+ compared to Munson's 116. The only thing keeping Tenace from being an easy HOFer in my minds that he played so much at 1B. However, for a guy to play 900 games at C and maintain a 130+ OPS+ is in the discussion for me- as is Munson. The biggest culprit that hurt Tenaces' reputation was the fact that walks were still very underrated back then, and he was an absolute walk machine. If Tenace were a 00's player, he would have gotten much more love, as things like OB% are part of the mainstream lexicon now. Like I said, I may take him out upon further review.

[Bothrops Atrox]

It appears as if most of the disagreement stems from how much value to give to walks. Tenace was a base on balls machine and deserves a lot of credit for that and a lot more recognition than he received. However, having watched him play, I can't imagine a manager on the planet if given his choice choosing to take Tenace and his superior OB% over Bench, Munson, or Gary Carter. Tenace has an OPS+ ten points higher than even Johnny Bench. That may make Tenace seem close to Bench on paper, yet they were worlds apart on the diamond.

Who suggested Tenace over Bench or Carter? Bench and Carter are top 5 all-time catchers. And where did anyone suggest that OB% alone is enough to rank anybody higher than anyone else? Tennace edges Munson because they are about the same defensively and Tenace obliterates Munson in terms of OB% and OPS - Munsons makes most of that up by playing more time at C than Tenace. But Tenace doesn't have to be Bench or even Carter to sneek (barely) into the HOF. He just needs to beat out the Shalks, Shangs, Lombardi's Freehans, and Munson's out there which I think he does (for now at least). You have asked for my reasoning, which I have provided. We disagree, which is great for the spirit of the forum, but I don't think this was intended to be a player worthiness debate thread, so maybe we can move on - but don't be surprised to see Tenace removed some time, with some other players added (like Traynor or Joss) and some more eliminated (like Sewell for example).

[Nerdlinger]

We disagree, which is great for the spirit of the forum, but I don't think this was intended to be a player worthiness debate thread, so maybe we can move on.

It's fine if you'd like to discuss the merits of your choices for your and others' HOFs; in fact, I encourage it, as it helps keep the thread alive. Just keep the debates friendly, that's all I ask.