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Robinson Cano

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  • Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

    The NBHoFM is independent of MLB Operations. They can induct banned players or institute standards that differ from MLB if they choose to do so.

    Case in point: leaving Roberto Alomar enshrined in the NBHoFM even though he has received a lifetime ban from the game with the reasoning that the ban came unto being after he was inducted.

    Regarding PEDs and banning those banned from the HOF, Manny Ramirez is still on the ballot and Mike Piazza has openly admitted to using aa form of PED that was not banned at the time and is in the NBHoFM.
    Unless I misunderstand, this is the first I've heard of this.

    Was Piazza taking something like the Andro stuff McGuire was taking, that was indeed legal in the nineties?

    If so, so what? This isn't an issue I study closely, because it's no fun, but it seems to me that anything one can buy over the counter should be fair game, unless there's a really good reason why not.

    I mean, spinach is performance-enhancing, right? It's good for you. Should we ban that? Multivitamins? Tylenol? Basic hay fever meds? (I've actually heard of issues with some of those.)

    You want to ban seriously controlled substances like that stuff you give horses, or whatever swells your hat size, shrinks your gonads, gives you an unfair advantage, and puts you in an early grave -- fine, I get that, I'm for that, pretty much without reservation.

    But what's the limiting principle? I don't know what it should be, but I think there should be one.

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    • Contact lenses enhance performance; they're completely synthetic. What is the line?

      I don't draw a line, because I'm not convinced the effects of steroids are universal. Remember the Mitchell Report? How many of those guys ever did anything meaningful in the major leagues?

      I don't think steroids have that great an effect on great players. They might make great players better, but a great player is a great player no matter what. To be great on steroids, you have to be great to begin with. And steroids don't work magically. A player has to train like crazy and put in a lot of effort to get them to have the desired effect. So the players using them are likely training as hard or harder than the average ballplayer anyway.

      Long story short, based on what he's done now, I'd put Cano in.

      Comment


      • A guy who has received long suspensions under an agreed upon and collectively bargained system isn't going to get elected to the Hall of Fame, absent the Hall convening a special committee made up of Jaffe, Davidoff, Bill James, Susan Slusser and Joe Posnanski.
        3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

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        • One benefit of steroids is they enable you to train longer and harder.

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          • So Cano got released by the Mets, despite a ton of money owed to him. His performance was just so bad (sub-50 OPS+?). Although the Padres picked him up, Cano is unlikely to add much to his career totals in years ahead. He will, most likely, retire at the end of this year. So his current stats will likely make his HOF case.

            His numbers indicate HOFer, but the PED cloud remains. Had he pulled a few good seasons after the PED suspensions, people might have been able to argue that he would have been good as a clean player too; he could have diminished the PED cloud that way. But that didn't happen.

            In addition, Cano was within striking distance of Jeff Kent's record for most HR as a 2B. Kent had 354 HR; Cano has 325. Kent will remain at the top

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            • n
              Originally posted by redban View Post
              So Cano got released by the Mets, despite a ton of money owed to him. His performance was just so bad (sub-50 OPS+?). Although the Padres picked him up, Cano is unlikely to add much to his career totals in years ahead. He will, most likely, retire at the end of this year. So his current stats will likely make his HOF case.

              His numbers indicate HOFer, but the PED cloud remains. Had he pulled a few good seasons after the PED suspensions, people might have been able to argue that he would have been good as a clean player too; he could have diminished the PED cloud that way. But that didn't happen.

              In addition, Cano was within striking distance of Jeff Kent's record for most HR as a 2B. Kent had 354 HR; Cano has 325. Kent will remain at the top
              The top 2 home run hitters at 2nd base aren’t/won’t be in the HOF. Interesting to think about.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cougar View Post

                Unless I misunderstand, this is the first I've heard of this.

                Was Piazza taking something like the Andro stuff McGuire was taking, that was indeed legal in the nineties?

                If so, so what? This isn't an issue I study closely, because it's no fun, but it seems to me that anything one can buy over the counter should be fair game, unless there's a really good reason why not.

                I mean, spinach is performance-enhancing, right? It's good for you. Should we ban that? Multivitamins? Tylenol? Basic hay fever meds? (I've actually heard of issues with some of those.)

                You want to ban seriously controlled substances like that stuff you give horses, or whatever swells your hat size, shrinks your gonads, gives you an unfair advantage, and puts you in an early grave -- fine, I get that, I'm for that, pretty much without reservation.

                But what's the limiting principle? I don't know what it should be, but I think there should be one.
                I have used Decadrol. It is amazing to me that no one at Baseball Fever has steroid experience that can be related to so-called PEDs.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bamay22 View Post
                  n

                  The top 2 home run hitters at 2nd base aren’t/won’t be in the HOF. Interesting to think about.
                  Kent gets in soon enough, if only to give Chris Russo one less reason to open his big mouth.
                  "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                  "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                  "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                  "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                    Kent gets in soon enough, if only to give Chris Russo one less reason to open his big mouth.
                    I'm embarrassed to say that I share the same passion as Chris Russo.

                    Comment


                    • When I look at Cano's career on B-R it's like Marty McFly when he's starting to fade. Even without/before the ped thing something about his career was boring/off/vanilla. Can't quite explain it. After 2x failure...he's just a blank space to me.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
                        One benefit of steroids is they enable you to train longer and harder.
                        Canseco mentioned in his famous book, PEDs also aid with recovery time whether from workout or injury. He also stated there is a significant rise in confidence as well, and that would definitely be beneficial out on the field.

                        Comment


                        • The PED issue will determine Cano's fate.

                          I will say this: The endless harping on PEDs has diminished my enthusiasm for MLB. The discussion of the issue has, in my eyes, reduced the sport to questions of "What's this guy taking?" that is the stuff of sports like Harness Racing. Under normal circumstances, Cano would be a no-brainer, but we have a new normal here that makes me less of a fan of the sport than I was when I started posting here.
                          "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

                          NL President Ford Frick, 1947

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