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Team Halls of Fame general discussion thread

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  • #76
    DJC, Thanks for the technical reply.

    I am skeptical that the effect will be important in this project. At the moment we have two huge counterexamples in the Reds and Tigers. We elected only 9 Reds despite the advantage of 12 voters. (Minimum 9 of 12 votes to elect, versus 9 of 11 for the Cubs and Orioles.) We elected 13 Tigers despite the disadvantage of 15 voters. (Min 12 of 15)

    For now I will simply wait until we have more teams with 10 to 12 ballots cast, I hope.
    ... Oh, I will look at the teams with less than 10 ballots, too, although the elections will be unofficial.


    P.S.
    The Reds have been the most surprising to me so far, nothing to do with the number of ballots cast, which adds only a tiny bit more surprise. Why does consensus about their greatest players fall short?

    The Red Sox with not one winning contributor are amusing.
    Last edited by Paul Wendt; 03-04-2011, 09:23 AM.

    Comment


    • #77
      Count players with 1000 IP, 4000 PA

      Innings Pitched milestones with one team (number of player-team careers)
      2000, 1500, 1000 IP
      1 3 08 TEX
      2 5 14 LAA
      3 5 11 NYM
      2 9 14 HOU

      So the Astros have nine 1500-inning pitchers; the Senators/Rangers have three (bold).

      Here are the Innings Pitched leaders for these four teams.
      3045 Tom Seaver, NYM
      2675 Chuck Finley, LAA
      2544 Jerry Koosman, NYM


      Plate Appearances milestones with one team (number of player-team careers)
      8000, 6000, 4000 PA
      0 3 11 TEX
      1 3 09 LAA
      0 0 10 NYM
      2 6 15 HOU

      So the Astros have six 6000-pa batters; the Mets have none (bold).

      Here are the Plate Appearances leaders for these four teams.
      12503 Craig Biggio, HOU
      9431 Jeff Bagwell, HOU
      8480 Garret Anderson, LAA


      P.S.
      I have looked at 3000 pa and 2000 pa milestones. The four counts are 19,20,18,22 and 42,36,38,39. There may be little scope for variation in frequency of career milestones down at those levels, for these teams which have played 50 or 49 seasons.
      Last edited by Paul Wendt; 03-08-2011, 09:56 AM.

      Comment


      • #78
        Given that the Rangers and Angels are struggling to reach 10 votes, I don't think it bodes well for voter turnout as we go on. So I think I'm going to lower the number of ballots needed to 8. This is the lower number of ballots we can have where it's still possible to elect someone by 75% or higher. The Rangers and Angels will be fine under this number, though if any team in the future can't get at least 8 votes, I think it's safe to say it's not really worth having the results anyway.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
          Given that the Rangers and Angels are struggling to reach 10 votes, I don't think it bodes well for voter turnout as we go on. So I think I'm going to lower the number of ballots needed to 8. This is the lower number of ballots we can have where it's still possible to elect someone by 75% or higher. The Rangers and Angels will be fine under this number, though if any team in the future can't get at least 8 votes, I think it's safe to say it's not really worth having the results anyway.
          I can understand that. My only concern was throwing out the results when you had 8 or 9 guys buying into one candidate, and that would be enough to elect if in fact you had 10 voters. The rest of the details are in your capable hands as the manager of the project.
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
            Given that the Rangers and Angels are struggling to reach 10 votes, I don't think it bodes well for voter turnout as we go on. So I think I'm going to lower the number of ballots needed to 8. This is the lower number of ballots we can have where it's still possible to elect someone by 75% or higher. The Rangers and Angels will be fine under this number, though if any team in the future can't get at least 8 votes, I think it's safe to say it's not really worth having the results anyway.
            In my opinion, the four most recent expansion teams really don't have enough eligible candidates for a substantial Hall of Fame. A lot of their best players are still active. You might consider ending Round One after the Blue Jays and Mariners elections are done. Alternately, you could have a joint Hall of Fame for the Rockies, Marlins, D'backs, and Rays.
            *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by DJC View Post
              In my opinion, the four most recent expansion teams really don't have enough eligible candidates for a substantial Hall of Fame. A lot of their best players are still active. You might consider ending Round One after the Blue Jays and Mariners elections are done. Alternately, you could have a joint Hall of Fame for the Rockies, Marlins, D'backs, and Rays.
              At this point, I have three or four players among those teams, at least two from Arizona (Randy Johnson and Luis Gonzalez, plus Brandon Webb if he's eligible. I might be persuaded to add Schilling). Beyond that, I've got Larry Walker from Colorado, and Leyland as a contributor in Florida, though I could be persuaded to add contributors. The other teams have several candidates each I'm willing to support.
              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

              Comment


              • #82
                The last wave of teams have been around for a generation in baseball. While I wouldn't expect anyone to vote a full ballot, each team has at least one viable candidate with the exception of the Rays, and I'd rather see them go one round even if they don't elect anyone:

                Rockies--Andres Galaragga, Joe Girardi, Vinny Castilla, Larry Walker
                Marlins--Gary Sheffield, Kevin Brown, Jeff Conine
                Diamondbacks--Steve Finley, Randy Johnson, Luis Gonzalez Brandon Webb (?)
                Devil Rays--???

                Comment


                • #83
                  Every team will get at least one round. As others have noted above, the Rays may be the only franchise without any real viable candidates. If we don't elect anyone for certain franchises, then so be it.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Innings Pitched milestones with one team (number of player-team careers)
                    2000, 1500, 1000 IP
                    1 3 08 TEX(senators)
                    2 5 14 LAA
                    3 5 11 NYM
                    2 9 14 HOU
                    1 2 08 WSN(expos)
                    0 2 08 SDP
                    1 3 11 MIL
                    3 6 12 KCR
                    3 5 08 TOR
                    1 2 06 SEA

                    For example (bold), the Astros have nine 1500-inning pitchers; the Senators/Rangers have three.


                    Plate Appearances milestones with one team (number of player-team careers)
                    8000, 6000, 4000 PA
                    0 3 11 TEX(senators)
                    1 3 09 LAA
                    0 0 10 NYM
                    2 6 15 HOU
                    0 4 07 WSN(expos)
                    1 1 03 SDP
                    2 4 10 MIL
                    2 5 08 KCR
                    0 1 08 TOR
                    1 3 07 SEA

                    For example (bold), the Astros have six 6000-pa batters; the Mets have none.

                    Among all ten 1960s-70s expansion teams covered here, the Astros (underline) lead at the two lower thresholds for pitchers, 1500 and 1000 innings, and lead at all three thresholds for batters, 8000, 6000, and 4000 pa (including ties). Three teams have one more 2000-inning pitcher than do the Astros.

                    The Padres have many fewer 8000-, 6000-, and 4000-pa batters than any other of these ten mature expansion teams, fewer than half as many at the 4000 threshold, seven to three! They trail all the others down to 3000 pa and 2000 pa, also, although the Bluejays and Mariners are eight seasons younger.
                    Last edited by Paul Wendt; 03-11-2011, 09:42 AM. Reason: fix miscount and clarify English

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                      Given that the Rangers and Angels are struggling to reach 10 votes, I don't think it bodes well for voter turnout as we go on. So I think I'm going to lower the number of ballots needed to 8. This is the lower number of ballots we can have where it's still possible to elect someone by 75% or higher. The Rangers and Angels will be fine under this number, though if any team in the future can't get at least 8 votes, I think it's safe to say it's not really worth having the results anyway.
                      I've been extremely busy lately between family sickness, work, and other personal projects. I intended to vote in each team's election, but just missed out for a while.

                      I like the idea of requiring a minimum of 8 ballots, but when less than 10 actual ballots are cast at least 8 votes required for election (as if blank ballots were cast to get the number up to 10...does that make sense?)
                      The Writer's Journey

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        I am sorting out how I want to proceed, and the framework I have come up with is that I will go with a new pair of franchises every five days--one of the original 16 paired with an expansion team. This will get us through the second round of all teams whose elections have already finished. I know that toward the end of July I will skip a turn due to being away. For anyone who wants to know what's coming up, here are the pairings:

                        Brewers and Dodgers
                        Royals and A's
                        Mariners and Tigers
                        Red Sox
                        Braves
                        Yanks
                        Cards
                        ==================
                        Rays and Phils
                        Diamondbacks and Indians
                        Rangers and White Sox
                        Angels and Pirates
                        Mets and Giants
                        Astros and Reds
                        Cubs and Orioles
                        Last edited by jalbright; 08-23-2011, 07:34 PM.
                        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          I think that due to my vacation at the end of the month, I won't post the A's and Royals until Saturday and I'll let them run for two weeks. I'll post the next two teams on the 21st and also let that run for two weeks, and then we'll resume the ten day schedule.
                          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            We had fifteen teams make the third round (assuming the Brewers don't have a massive change). Fourteen of the original sixteen (the Cubs and Twins fell to insufficient interest) plus the Mets. We've already started the Yankees third round. The pairings after will be this:
                            Dodgers and A's
                            Red Sox and White Sox
                            Giants and Braves
                            Cards and Orioles
                            Phils and Indians
                            Pirates and Reds
                            Mets and Tigers
                            Last edited by jalbright; 12-10-2011, 07:14 AM.
                            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              I'm going to put the Giants and Braves up this weekend and let them run until the 31st. I won't put the Cards and Orioles up until sometime between Christmas Eve (the 24th) and the 26th (almost certainly not on Christmas day) and let that election run until January 14. I'll put up the Phils and Indians on January 14th, and that will run for two weeks, and we'll put up the Pirates and Reds for 2 weeks on January 28, and after that 2 weeks is done, we'll finish the third round with two weeks of the Tigers and Mets. After that, we'll begin the fourth round.
                              Last edited by jalbright; 12-10-2011, 07:15 AM.
                              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                As I need to give my other project another week, I'm adjusting the schedule set out above. I'm going to post the Phils and Indians today and open until the 21st, and I'll make up my mind on the others depending on how the other project fares.
                                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                                Comment

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