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Negro Leagues Hall of Fame: Round one

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  • Negro Leagues Hall of Fame: Round one

    Most of the rules are identical to those in the Franchise Hall of Fame project, but with the notable additions of fixed candidate lists (which can be added to) and some clarifications for the group in question and a strong request that you make my job of tabulating the votes easier by listing players in alphabetical order. If I do not get sufficient compliance with this request, I will make it a requirement of an eligible ballot.

    PLEASE READ THE FORMAT AND RULES SECTION BEFORE VOTING. THANK YOU.

    FORMAT AND RULES

    Purpose: The purpose of this project is to create a Hall of Fame for each franchise whereby each group will honor those individuals whose contributions and accomplishments are most notable, significant, and enduring to that group's history. This project is not about simply honoring those with the best statistics with each group.

    Standards: Each franchise has its own unique history and context, and thus contributions and accomplishments that may stand out remarkably within one franchise's history, may not be so remarkable in another franchise's history. Standards from group to group will inherently vary, and thus there should be no impetus to create equal standards among the groups or to aspire to the standards of the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Consequently, subjectivity within the context of the group in question will play an inevitable role when considering an individual's contributions and accomplishments with respect to that franchise. In sum, a group’s Hall of Fame should be unaffected by the standards and contexts of other franchises or groups as well as the National Baseball Hall of Fame, and should be entirely a product of its own history.

    Election Format: Elections will be conducted one group at a time and each election will last approximately two weeks, as these groups require more research than the franchises do IMHO..
    - Ballot Size: Voters can select up to 15 players and 5 contributors per election. There is no minimum ballot size after the first round. In the first round, you must name at least one person in each election in which you wish to participate. However, if you wish to cast a blank ballot in subsequent rounds, you must specify that you are casting a blank ballot, i.e., voting for no one.
    - Ballot Editing: To account for ongoing discussion, voters may edit their ballots as often as necessary through the end of an election.
    - Election Percentage: Any individual that is listed on at least 75% of either the player or contributor submitted ballots will be elected to that team's Hall of Fame. In instances where an individual receive votes as both a player and a contributor, that individual will be elected if listed on at least 75% of ballots in either category or if the individual's combined vote total is at least 75% of the category with the greatest number of ballots submitted.
    - Subsequent Rounds: After an election has been performed for each of my special elections (we will have a Defunct NL teams election, an American Association election, and a pre-1876 election as well), a second round of elections will commence, again proceeding in the original order. A third round of elections (and perhaps beyond) may also be held depending on interest.

    Eligibility:
    - Players: Play in non MLB leagues which admitted people of color are all eligible to be considered. However, only play in such leagues is to be considered. Thus, the MLB exploits of Jackie Robinson, Minnie Minoso and so on are not to be considered here.
    - Contributors: Individuals that contributed in other capacities to the Negro Leagues may be considered, including managers, coaches, executives, owners, and broadcasters.
    - Multiple Capacities: The totality of contributions and accomplishments with respect to a franchise are to be considered, and thus an individual can only be elected once by a franchise. For purposes of ballot size limits, an individual should be designated either a player or contributor based on what the voter perceives to be the individual's greater role with the franchise. An individual should not be listed as either a player or contributor merely to facilitate ballot space for the other category.
    - Multiple Franchises: An individual may be considered and elected by multiple franchises.


    Negro Leagues - ROUND ONE
    This election will end on Saturday, January 21, 2011, at 11:59:59 p.m.EST

    I will, unlike the companion franchise project, be using fixed lists of eligible players. I have striven to come up with rather comprehensive lists, but if you 1) are willing to vote for a candidate you nominate, and 2) provide at least some idea of why you think others should join you in that vote, I will consider adding anyone who meets the criteria of the group.

    My Negro League list of eligibles:
    Negro League contributors
    Ed Bolden
    Andy Cooper
    Frank Duncan, Jr.
    Rube Foster
    Bud Fowler
    Gus Greenlee
    Vic Harris
    Frank Leland
    Dave Malarcher
    Abe Manley
    Effa Manley
    J. B. Martin
    Jose Mendez
    Buck O'Neil
    Alejandro Pompez
    Cum Posey
    Candy Jim Taylor
    C. I. Taylor
    Frank Warfield
    Sol White
    J. L. Wilkinson

    Players
    Newt Allen
    Buddy Armour
    Pee Wee Austin
    Walter Ball
    Sam Bankhead
    Hank Barker
    Dave Barnhill
    Bernard Baro
    Pepper Bassett
    John Beckwith
    Cool Papa Bell
    William Bell
    Jerry Benjamin
    Gene Benson
    Joe Black
    Charles Blackwell
    Emmett Bowman
    Bob Boyd
    Gene Bremmer
    Chet Brewer
    Chester Brooks
    Barney Brown
    Dave Brown
    Larry Brown
    Ray Brown
    Willard Brown
    Luis Bustamente
    Pee Wee Butts
    Bill Byrd
    Roy Campanella
    Rev Cannady
    George Carr
    Bill Cash
    Perucho "The Bull" Cepeda
    Pelayo Chacon
    Oscar Charleston
    Morten Clark
    Bus Clarkson
    Phil Cockrell
    Pancho Coimbre
    Andy Cooper
    Sug Cornelius
    Dewey Creacy
    Jimmy Crutchfield
    Ray Dandridge
    Lloyd Davenport
    Cherokee Davis
    Piper Davis
    Leon Day
    Bingo DeMoss
    Martin Dihigo
    Dizzy Dismukes
    Rap Dixon
    Larry Doby
    John Donaldson
    Ed Douglass
    Bunny Downs
    Bill Drake
    Frank Duncan, Jr
    Eddie Dwight
    Howard Easterling
    Roberto Estalella
    Jose Fernandez
    Rube Foster
    Willie Foster
    Bud Fowler
    Bill Francis
    Lefty Gaines
    Manuel Garcia
    Silvio Garcia
    Jelly Gardner
    Josh Gibson
    George Giles
    Charlie Grant
    Frank Grant
    Leroy Grant
    Joe Greene
    Schoolboy Griffith
    Blainey Hall
    Nate Harris
    Vic Harris
    Abe Harrrison
    Rats Henderson
    Pete Hill
    Bill Holland
    Highpockets Hudspeth
    Sammy T. Hughes
    Bertrum Hunter
    Monte Irvin
    Will Jackman
    Fats Jenkins
    Jeep Jessup
    Sam Jethro
    Grant "Home Run" Johnson
    Judy Johnson
    Oscar "Heavy" Johnson
    Slim Jones
    Newt Joseph
    Edric Kellman
    Henry Kimbro
    Jim Lamarque
    Buck Leonard
    John Henry "Pop" Lloyd
    Lester Lockett
    Tommy Louden
    Dick Lundy
    Jimmie Lyons
    Biz Mackey
    Dave Malarcher
    Max Manning
    Oliver Marcelle
    Luis Marquez
    Horacio Martinez
    Verdell Mathis
    Leroy Matlock
    Dan McClellan
    Booker McDaniels
    Webster McDonald
    Terris McDuffie
    Henry McHenry
    Lefty McKinnis
    Hurley McNair
    Jose Mendez
    Minnie Minoso
    Bill Monroe
    Dobie Moore
    Leroy Morney
    Porter Moss
    Dink Mothel
    Emilio Navarro
    Diomedes Olivo
    Alejandro Oms
    Buck O’Neil
    Ted Page
    Satchel Paige
    Red Parnell
    John Patterson
    Pat Patterson
    Jap Payne
    Leonard Pearson
    Bill Perkins
    Bruce Petway
    Spottswood Poles
    Alex Radcliffe
    Ted “Double Duty” Radcliffe
    Connie Rector
    Cannonball Dick Redding
    Frog Redus
    Bill Riggins
    Ed Rile
    Neal Robinson
    Bullet Joe Rogan
    Nat Rogers
    Harry Salmon
    Tommy Sampson
    Louis Santop
    George Scales
    Pat Scantlebury
    Dick Seay
    Bonnie Serrell
    Chino Smith
    Clarence Smith
    Hilton Smith
    Herb Souell
    Turkey Stearnes
    Paul Stephens
    Ed Stone
    George Stovey
    Ted Strong
    Mule Suttles
    Ben Taylor
    Candy Jim Taylor
    Jelly Taylor
    Clint Thomas
    Jules Thomas
    Showboat Thomas
    Luis Tiant Sr
    Cristobal Torriente
    Ted Trent
    Quincy Trouppe
    Tetelo Vargas
    Fleetwood Walker
    Dick Wallace
    Archie Ware
    Frank Warfield
    Speck Webster
    Willie Wells
    Edgar Wesley
    Chaney White
    Sol White
    Frank Wickware
    Doc Wiley
    Bobby Williams
    Chet Williams
    Clarence Williams
    George Williams
    Gerard Williams
    Harry Williams
    Smoky Joe Williams
    Stringbean Williams
    Artie Wilson
    Dan Wilson
    George Wilson
    Jud Wilson
    Nip Winters
    Parnell Woods
    Bill Wright
    George Wright
    Laymon Yokely
    Last edited by jalbright; 01-10-2011, 01:57 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  • #2
    My ballot:
    Cepeda, P
    Charleston
    Dihgio
    Gibson, J
    Irvin
    Lloyd
    Oms
    Paige
    Rogan
    Smith, C
    Stearnes
    Suttles
    Torriente
    Williams, J
    Wilson, Jud

    Contributors:
    Ed Bolden
    Rube Foster
    Buck O'Neil
    C. I. Taylor
    Sol White
    Last edited by jalbright; 01-15-2011, 11:49 AM. Reason: Dihigo in, W. Brown waits for next time.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #3
      Players
      Cool Papa Bell
      Willard Brown
      Oscar Charleston
      Ray Dandridge
      Martin Dihigo
      Josh Gibson
      Monte Irvin
      Buck Leonard
      Pop Lloyd
      Bullet Rogan
      Satchel Paige
      Turkey Stearnes
      Cristobal Torriente
      Willie Wells
      Joe Williams

      Contributors
      Rube Foster
      Buck O'Neill
      Sol White

      I'm going to have to think about the last two spots on my contributors ballot, so I'll be editing.

      Comment


      • #4
        Players:
        Ray Brown
        Oscar Charleston
        Martin Dihigo
        Josh Gibson
        Monte Irvin
        Grant Johnson
        John Henry Lloyd
        Satchel Paige
        Bullet Joe Rogan
        Louis Santop
        Turkey Stearnes
        Cristobal Torriente
        Willie Wells
        Smokey Joe Williams
        Jud Wilson

        Players who are in my Hall of Fame, but don't reach the ballot:
        John Beckwith
        Willard Brown
        Perucho Cepeda
        Rube Foster
        Frank Grant
        Pete Hill
        Buck Leonard
        Dick Lundy
        Biz Mackey
        Jose Mendez
        Bill Monroe
        Alejandro Oms
        Hilton Smith
        Mule Suttles
        Quincy Trouppe

        Player I need more information about:
        Chino Smith - The guys over at the Hall of Merit have very little evidence on him. Jalbright, in your musings for C Smith, I noticed that you mentioned he had an amazing six to seven year stretch, but nothing else, and that makes him fall short. You have revised your rankings and incorporated WAR as far as I can tell, and you list C Smith at 84? Did he have an all-time historic peak, with MVP type seasons each year?

        Thanks,
        Bleed
        Last edited by Jar of Flies; 01-08-2011, 10:36 AM.
        Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
        http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Jar of Flies View Post
          Player I need more information about:
          Chino Smith - The guys over at the Hall of Merit have very little evidence on him. Jalbright, in your musings for C Smith, I noticed that you mentioned he had an amazing six to seven year stretch, but nothing else, and that makes him fall short. You have revised your rankings and incorporated WAR as far as I can tell, and you list C Smith at 84? Did he have an all-time historic peak, with MVP type seasons each year?

          Thanks,
          Bleed
          Chino averaged over .400 in his admittedly brief Negro League career--while adding about 33 HR per 550 AB. He didn't walk like Rogers Hornsby, but I think, per my musings posts on him, that if you converted his data for those six seasons, he looks remarkably like a left handed version of Hornsby at the plate less about 60 walks a season. To me, that's one heck of a hitter--and, remember, this project is about who was best in the Negro Leagues while playing there. I think, but am not certain that he's first 15 material--but I am quite certain he's deserving of the honor by the end of this project.
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

          Comment


          • #6
            Players
            Cool Papa Bell
            Willard Brown
            Oscar Charleston
            Ray Dandridge
            Martin Dihigo
            Josh Gibson
            Monte Irvin
            Buck Leonard
            Pop Lloyd
            Alejandro Oms
            Bullet Rogan
            Satchel Paige
            Turkey Stearnes
            Cristobal Torriente
            Joe Williams

            Contributors
            Rube Foster
            Buck O'Neill
            C.I. Taylor
            Sol White
            J.L. Wilkinson
            Last edited by Domenic; 01-12-2011, 02:45 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              1. Cool Papa Bell
              2. Oscar Charleston
              3. Martin Dihigo
              4. Josh Gibson
              5. Buck Leonard
              6. John Henry "Pop" Lloyd
              7. Biz Mackey
              8. Satchel Paige
              9. Bullet Joe Rogan
              10. Hilton Smith
              11. Turkey Stearnes
              12. Mule Suttles
              13. Willie Wells
              14. Smoky Joe Williams
              15. Jud Wilson
              1. Rube Foster
              2. Vic Harris

              Comment


              • #8
                As of now, I have 27 players I am in the process of whittling down to 15. If I haven't posted a balot by the time you are getting ready to tally everything up, remind me, or bump the thread with a reminder.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                  As of now, I have 27 players I am in the process of whittling down to 15. If I haven't posted a balot by the time you are getting ready to tally everything up, remind me, or bump the thread with a reminder.
                  I'll try, but you've got 12 days right now.
                  Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                  Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                  A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I had a really hard time doing this:

                    Players (15)
                    Cool Papa Bell
                    Willard Brown
                    Oscar Charleston
                    Leon Day
                    Martin Dihigo
                    Willie Foster
                    Josh Gibson
                    Frank Grant
                    John Pop Lloyd
                    Dick Lundy
                    Bill Monroe
                    Satchel Paige
                    Bullet Joe Rogan
                    Louis Santop
                    Cristobal Torriente

                    Contributors (5)
                    Rube Foster
                    Buck O'Neill
                    Cum Posey
                    Sol White
                    J. L. Wilkinson
                    RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Players
                      Cool Papa Bell
                      Oscar Charleston
                      Ray Dandridge
                      Leon Day
                      Josh Gibson
                      Pete Hill
                      Buck Leonard
                      Pop Lloyd
                      Bullet Rogan
                      Satchel Paige
                      Hilton Smith
                      Turkey Stearnes
                      Cristobal Torriente
                      Willie Wells
                      Joe Williams

                      Contributors
                      Rube Foster
                      Buck O'Neill
                      Cum Posey
                      Sol White
                      "Age is a question of mind over matter--if you don't mind, it doesn't matter."
                      -Satchel Paige

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Contributors
                        Sol White
                        Rube Foster
                        J.L. Wilkinson
                        Cum Posey
                        Buck O'Neil

                        Director jalbright:
                        >>
                        I will, unlike the companion franchise project, be using fixed lists of eligible players. I have striven to come up with rather comprehensive lists, but if you 1) are willing to vote for a candidate you nominate, and 2) provide at least some idea of why you think others should join you in that vote, I will consider adding anyone who meets the criteria of the group.
                        <<

                        Today I would vote for Bud Fowler as a contributor, if this were the second round and we had elected five from my list (not necessarily all five on my first round ballot).

                        add -03-05:
                        We elected only Foster and O'Neill from my ballot so Fowler is on the cusp.
                        Last edited by Paul Wendt; 03-05-2011, 09:50 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          At first I passed halfway to fifteen without getting to the 1920s debutantes. I'll impose a little more balance.

                          Players (15 expected)
                          Grant Johnson
                          John Lloyd
                          Louis Santop
                          Joe Williams
                          Oscar Charleston
                          Wilbur Rogan
                          Cristobal Torriente

                          Martin Dihigo
                          Willie Wells
                          Turkey Stearnes
                          Satchel Paige
                          Josh Gibson
                          Buck Leonard
                          Ray Brown
                          Monte Irvin
                          Last edited by Paul Wendt; 01-19-2011, 10:36 AM. Reason: complete a valid ballot; end coffee break

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Paul Wendt View Post
                            Today I would vote for Bud Fowler as a contributor, if this were the second round and we had elected five from my list (not necessarily all five on my first round ballot).
                            If five contributors are elected in the first round
                            Fowler has been added to the contributor list.
                            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Players:

                              Perucho "The Bull" Cepeda
                              Oscar Charleston
                              Josh Gibson
                              Buck Leonard
                              John Henry "Pop" Lloyd
                              Satchel Paige
                              Bullet Joe Rogan
                              Louis Santop
                              Chino Smith
                              Turkey Stearnes
                              Mule Suttles
                              Luis Tiant Sr.
                              Cristobal Torriente
                              Smoky Joe Williams
                              Jud Wilson

                              Contributors:

                              Ed Bolden
                              Rube Foster
                              Buck O'Neil
                              Cum Posey
                              J. L. Wilkinson

                              Plan on eventually voting for:

                              John Beckwith
                              Cool Papa Bell
                              Chet Brewer
                              Larry Brown
                              Ray Brown
                              Willard Brown
                              Roy Campanella
                              Bus Clarkson
                              Andy Cooper
                              Ray Dandridge
                              Leon Day
                              Bingo DeMoss
                              Martin Dihigo
                              Dizzy Dismukes
                              Larry Doby
                              John Donaldson
                              Rube Foster
                              Willie Foster
                              Bud Fowler
                              Frank Grant
                              Pete Hill
                              Monte Irvin
                              Will Jackman
                              Fats Jenkins
                              Grant "Home Run" Johnson
                              Judy Johnson
                              Oscar "Heavy" Johnson
                              Dick Lundy
                              Biz Mackey
                              Oliver Marcelle
                              Jose Mendez
                              Minnie Minoso
                              Bill Monroe
                              Dobie Moore
                              Diomedes Olivo
                              Alejandro Oms
                              Buck O’Neil
                              Bruce Petway
                              Spottswood Poles
                              Ted “Double Duty” Radcliffe
                              Cannonball Dick Redding
                              Hilton Smith
                              George Stovey
                              Ben Taylor
                              Quincy Trouppe
                              Fleetwood Walker
                              Willie Wells

                              Since this is a Negro League specific team, my queue is much larger than it would be for an NBHoFM project. I also plan on voting for most of the eligible contributors with a few exceptions and will listen to any cases for any Negro Leaguer not in my queue.

                              Comment

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