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  • Originally posted by White Knight View Post
    That's a bit of a stretch, but a sure fire HOF anyway.
    How is it a stretch? I'm not saying Griffey was necesarily as good as Mays/Aaron but he has was looked as that kind of player by many.

    Griffey has the following in common with Mays/Aaron:

    -Griffey debuted in the majors at avery young age (19). Mays and Aaron were both 20 went the debuted.
    -All three had similar rookie seasons. Mays won the RoY, Griffey finished 3rd, Aaron finished 4th. Basically at age 19 Griffey was as good as Mays and Aaron at age 20.
    -By their mid 20s they were all puting up 40-50 HR seasons.
    -All three were considered superstars of the highest order in their 20s.
    -When we took a poll at BBF to name the the player that closesy resembles Willie Mays, Griffey won the poll.
    -Through age 30 Griffey was:
    --11x All-Star
    --10x Gold Glove winner
    --1 MVP, with a 2nd place, two 4th place, and a 5th place finish
    --A career line of .296/.380/.568, 147 OPS+, 438 HR, 1270 RBI, 1163 R, 1883 H, 342 doubles, 187 SB

    -Griffey was viewed as the player to break Aaron's 755 HR.

    Buth then the injuries came in his 30s and he went from superstar to afterthought in no time.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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    • Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
      How is it a stretch? I'm not saying Griffey was necesarily as good as Mays/Aaron but he has was looked as that kind of player by many.

      Griffey has the following in common with Mays/Aaron:

      -Griffey debuted in the majors at avery young age (19). Mays and Aaron were both 20 went the debuted.
      -All three had similar rookie seasons. Mays won the RoY, Griffey finished 3rd, Aaron finished 4th. Basically at age 19 Griffey was as good as Mays and Aaron at age 20.
      -By their mid 20s they were all puting up 40-50 HR seasons.
      -All three were considered superstars of the highest order in their 20s.
      -When we took a poll at BBF to name the the player that closesy resembles Willie Mays, Griffey won the poll.
      -Through age 30 Griffey was:
      --11x All-Star
      --10x Gold Glove winner
      --1 MVP, with a 2nd place, two 4th place, and a 5th place finish
      --A career line of .296/.380/.568, 147 OPS+, 438 HR, 1270 RBI, 1163 R, 1883 H, 342 doubles, 187 SB

      -Griffey was viewed as the player to break Aaron's 755 HR.

      Buth then the injuries came in his 30s and he went from superstar to afterthought in no time.
      I guess if you look at it that way. Yes, he was viewed by some as potentially breaking Aaron's record. He probably could have, but injuries came and he didn't age well (due to injuries of course). Was he ever viewed as a lock for 3,000 hits though? I guess I just had some issue comparing him to Mays.

      I can see what you're saying now, but I always will feel he's over-rated by Casual Joe the Baseball Fan. If you ask the average fan, he's the best defensive CFer since Mays, and the best player of the 90's. Ive had so many arguments with these type of fans, and when I bring up OPS+ they always look puzzled. I'm probably under-rating him I know, but I just never saw it as much as the rest.

      BTW, do you have any projections as to what his numbers may have looked like without the injuries? Where would you rank him with these projected numbers?
      Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

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      • maybe sock can chime in what the projections without injuries would have been
        I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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        • Originally posted by Cowtipper View Post
          He didn't post enough counting numbers to merit Hall of Fame discussion.
          Heaven forbid one jokes about completely non-Hall-worthy players, but this kind of stuff is allowed to pass :
          Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
          Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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          • Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
            Heaven forbid one jokes about completely non-Hall-worthy players, but this kind of stuff is allowed to pass :
            That kind of stuff is not told at another poster's expense.
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            Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

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            • Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
              Heaven forbid one jokes about completely non-Hall-worthy players, but this kind of stuff is allowed to pass :
              Here's a tiny violin. We are all playing it for you.

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              • The comments directed at other posters in this thread will cease, or, henceforth, those making such posts can expect deletion/editing of their posts and quite possibly a vacation from the site.
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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                • double post
                  Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 10-11-2010, 11:30 AM.
                  Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by White Knight View Post
                    I guess if you look at it that way. Yes, he was viewed by some as potentially breaking Aaron's record. He probably could have, but injuries came and he didn't age well (due to injuries of course). Was he ever viewed as a lock for 3,000 hits though? I guess I just had some issue comparing him to Mays.

                    I can see what you're saying now, but I always will feel he's over-rated by Casual Joe the Baseball Fan. If you ask the average fan, he's the best defensive CFer since Mays, and the best player of the 90's. Ive had so many arguments with these type of fans, and when I bring up OPS+ they always look puzzled. I'm probably under-rating him I know, but I just never saw it as much as the rest.

                    BTW, do you have any projections as to what his numbers may have looked like without the injuries? Where would you rank him with these projected numbers?
                    I think he was. Through age 30 Aaron had 2,085 hits and Mays had 1,657 hits. With 1,883 hits, Griffey was right in the middle of the two.
                    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                      I think he was. Through age 30 Aaron had 2,085 hits and Mays had 1,657 hits. With 1,883 hits, Griffey was right in the middle of the two.
                      It just goes to show how very hard it is to get 3000 hits.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cougar View Post
                        It just goes to show how very hard it is to get 3000 hits.
                        Sure does. Mays got to 3,283 hits and Aaron got to 3,771 hits. But I believe if Griffey didn't have all those injuries he would have reached 3,000 hits as well given that he did reach 2,781 hits.
                        Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                          Sure does. Mays got to 3,283 hits and Aaron got to 3,771 hits. But I believe if Griffey didn't have all those injuries he would have reached 3,000 hits as well given that he did reach 2,781 hits.
                          Oh, I agree completely. The fact that Griffey compiled the totals he did despite never being completely healthy after he turned thirty is astonishing. It ought to remind us just how good his twenties were!

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                          • I wonder if this poll got to 500 votes, it too would have three dissenters.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cowtipper View Post
                              I wonder if this poll got to 500 votes, it too would have three dissenters.
                              Getting tired of the whining. Ruth, Cobb, Mays, Walter Johnson had way more no votes :disbelief:
                              Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                              Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cowtipper View Post
                                I wonder if this poll got to 500 votes, it too would have three dissenters.
                                To be fair, the question here is a little different. I would have to imagine those three dissenters would have answered yes to our poll, which is "Will Ken Griffey Jr deserve to make the HOF?" I haven't heard why they voted no, but likely because of two reasons.

                                1) They don't vote first ballot for anyone, because Ruth/Gehrig/Williams, etc. didn't get 100%.
                                2) They aren't voting for anyone this generation. One guy who didn't vote for Maddux last year said this was his reason.
                                Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

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