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  • #46
    --IF you think he is one of the top 2-3 catchers ever, then you can make an argument for him as top 20 all time. That wasn't what the previous argument was though. It was if there are 3 better CF than Griffey then more than two better players at any other posiiton would add to be too many guys for Griffey to make the top 20. I think its close as to whether Griffey or Piazza have had better careers anyway.

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    • #47
      Right, not only that but if you add DiMaggio or Charleston in (not to mention both, let's just say one) you have 4 ahead of Griffey Jr. anyway; the problem worsens in some other positions. RF, for instance, you could make a very good argument for 4 (Ruth, Aaron, Frank Robinson for sure, and probably Mel Ott, who was good enough to lay 3rd) who were better than Griffey Jr., which means theremay have to be one position where you can only have one better than him.

      These averages make things real complex, real fast.
      If Baseball Integrated Early - baseball integrated from the beginning - and "Brotherhood and baseball," the U.S. history companion, at http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Baseballifsandmore - IBIE updated for 2011.

      "Full House Chronology" at yahoo group fullhousefreaks & fullhouse4life with help of many fans, thanks for the input

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      • #48
        There are five major league centerfielders that are plainly better than Griffey: Cobb, Mays, Mantle, DiMaggio, Speaker (not necessarily in that order, although that's a plausible one). For the record, there is no shame in being behind that collection of talent -- not just the top five CF ever, but probably among the top 15-20 players at any position.

        Charleston, who played exclusively in the Negro Leagues, probably belongs in that group as well, although I don't know Negro League history well, so I'd be happy to defer to someone who does as to what his exact placement should be.

        Additionally, Duke Snider is often mentioned in these comparisons as being roughly equivalent to Griffey; some like Junior better, some like the Duke. I favor Griffey myself, but it's debatable.

        So Griffey tops out at #6, and might be as low as #8 if Charleston and Snider are ahead of him.

        That's still puts Griffey in the upper echelon of Hall of Famers, just not quite at the very top.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by ElHalo
          The good that men do is quickly and easily forgotten; the bad lingers on forever. Simple fact of life.
          RIIIIGHT!!!!!!!!
          That's why Ruth's Yankees are remember more for their WS wins than losses.

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          • #50
            Ken Griffey falls into that catagory called "man he was great but man he could have been so much greater." ala Mickey Mantle.........

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            • #51
              Ken Griffey Jr

              He's 36 and in his 18th season. I would like to get some thoughts on his career thus far and if possible some insight on where you think his career totals will end up? I know this calls for a lot of speculation. So I'll be the first to throw some projections out there.

              I think he could very well end up with

              Games 2750
              At-Bats 10,184
              Runs 1818
              Hits 2981
              Doubles 556
              Triples 46
              Home Runs 693
              RBI's 1987
              Stolen Bases 230
              Walks 1343
              AVG .293
              OBP .377
              SLG .561
              My dream ballpark dimensions
              LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
              RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
              Location....San Diego

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              • #52
                150 more HRs?
                10 more triples?
                Maintaining .293?
                I don't see it.

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                • #53
                  If Griffey retired 6 years ago, he's in the hall now. No brainer.
                  My top 10 players:

                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Barry Bonds
                  3. Ty Cobb
                  4. Ted Williams
                  5. Willie Mays
                  6. Alex Rodriguez
                  7. Hank Aaron
                  8. Honus Wagner
                  9. Lou Gehrig
                  10. Mickey Mantle

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Sockeye
                    He's 36 and in his 18th season. I would like to get some thoughts on his career thus far and if possible some insight on where you think his career totals will end up? I know this calls for a lot of speculation. So I'll be the first to throw some projections out there.

                    I think he could very well end up with

                    Games 2750
                    At-Bats 10,184
                    Runs 1818
                    Hits 2981
                    Doubles 556
                    Triples 46
                    Home Runs 693
                    RBI's 1987
                    Stolen Bases 230
                    Walks 1343
                    AVG .293
                    OBP .377
                    SLG .561
                    I bet you predict he'll sneak in
                    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                    Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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                    • #55
                      Now I know he starts these threads to get a rise. If there was any doubt before, it's gone.
                      "I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day and I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
                      Carl Yastrzemski

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                      • #56
                        Griffey is in if he retires tomorrow.

                        These "projections" of yours are obviously not worth the kilabytes they take up online if you think Griffey is going to hit 150 more home runs, especially since he's got 3 this year in only 15 games this year.

                        He'd have to hit 35 a year well into his age 41 season, assuming he got the 32 more he needed this year to get there (a HUGE assumption).

                        You can't base projects on Yaz's career, seeing as he played longer than just about anyone else out there.
                        Visit my card site at Mike D's Baseball Card Page.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by runningshoes53
                          Now I know he starts these threads to get a rise. If there was any doubt before, it's gone.
                          I wonder if Sockeye will go out on the long thin limb and project Clemens, Maddux and ARod to squeak in
                          Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                          Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            The only way Griffey is kept out of the HoF is if Pete Rose becomes his new best friend.
                            Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Mike D.
                              Griffey is in if he retires tomorrow.

                              These "projections" of yours are obviously not worth the kilabytes they take up online if you think Griffey is going to hit 150 more home runs, especially since he's got 3 this year in only 15 games this year.

                              He'd have to hit 35 a year well into his age 41 season, assuming he got the 32 more he needed this year to get there (a HUGE assumption).

                              You can't base projects on Yaz's career, seeing as he played longer than just about anyone else out there.
                              Can't anyone here do simple math? Ken Griffey Jr will play this entire season at age 36. Next season he'll be 37, the year after that he'll be 38, in 2009 he'll be 39, and in 2010 he'll be 40.

                              That's an average of 31 a year til age 40. NOT 35 a year til age 41. Get your facts straight please!!
                              My dream ballpark dimensions
                              LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
                              RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
                              Location....San Diego

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Sockeye
                                Can't anyone here do simple math? Ken Griffey Jr will play this entire season at age 36. Next season he'll be 37, the year after that he'll be 38, in 2009 he'll be 39, and in 2010 he'll be 40.

                                That's an average of 31 a year til age 40. NOT 35 a year til age 41. Get your facts straight please!!
                                Reds fans would love seeing this thread, considering Griffey has not been healthy enough to post those numbers on a consistent basis since he was traded, with 2000 and 2005 being exceptions.
                                Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                                Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                                Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                                Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                                Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

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