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Defunct NL teams, round 2

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  • Defunct NL teams, round 2

    I made a botch of the first contributor election, so we'll try that one again. As for players, we've already inducted:
    Charlie Bennett
    Dan Brouthers
    Jesse Burkett
    Jack Glasscock
    Willie Keeler
    Joe Kelley
    Old Hoss Radbourn
    Cy Young

    Most of the rules are identical to those in the Franchise Hall of Fame project, but with the notable additions of fixed candidate lists (which can be added to) and some clarifications for the group in question and a strong request that you make my job of tabulating the votes easier by listing players in alphabetical order. If I do not get sufficient compliance with this request, I will make it a requirement of an eligible ballot.

    PLEASE READ THE FORMAT AND RULES SECTION BEFORE VOTING. THANK YOU.

    FORMAT AND RULES

    Purpose: The purpose of this project is to create a Hall of Fame for each group whereby each group will honor those individuals whose contributions and accomplishments are most notable, significant, and enduring to that group's history. This project is not about simply honoring those with the best statistics with each group.

    Standards: Each grouping has its own unique history and context, and thus contributions and accomplishments that may stand out remarkably within one franchise's history, may not be so remarkable in another grouping's history. Standards from group to group will inherently vary, and thus there should be no impetus to create equal standards among the groups or to aspire to the standards of the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Consequently, subjectivity within the context of the group in question will play an inevitable role when considering an individual's contributions and accomplishments with respect to that franchise. In sum, a group’s Hall of Fame should be unaffected by the standards and contexts of other franchises or groups as well as the National Baseball Hall of Fame, and should be entirely a product of its own history.

    Election Format: Elections will be conducted one group at a time and each election will last approximately two weeks, as these groups require more research than the franchises do IMHO..
    - Ballot Size: Voters can select up to 15 players and 5 contributors per election. There is no minimum ballot size after the first round. In the first round, you must name at least one person in each election in which you wish to participate. However, if you wish to cast a blank ballot in subsequent rounds, you must specify that you are casting a blank ballot, i.e., voting for no one.
    - Ballot Editing: To account for ongoing discussion, voters may edit their ballots as often as necessary through the end of an election.
    - Election Percentage: Any individual that is listed on at least 75% of either the player or contributor submitted ballots will be elected to that team's Hall of Fame. In instances where an individual receive votes as both a player and a contributor, that individual will be elected if listed on at least 75% of ballots in either category or if the individual's combined vote total is at least 75% of the category with the greatest number of ballots submitted. However, a candidate needs a minimum of six votes to be elected.
    - Subsequent Rounds: After an election has been performed for each of my special elections (we will have a Defunct NL teams election, an American Association election, and a pre-1876 election as well), a second round of elections will commence, again proceeding in the original order. A third round of elections (and perhaps beyond) may also be held depending on interest.

    Eligibility:
    - Players: Play for defunct National League teams are all eligible to be considered. However, only play for such teams is to be considered. The teams the players are eligible to be considered for are part of the master list.
    - Contributors: Individuals that contributed in other capacities to the defunct teams may be considered, including managers, coaches, executives, owners, and broadcasters.
    - Multiple Capacities: The totality of contributions and accomplishments with respect to a franchise are to be considered, and thus an individual can only be elected once by a franchise. For purposes of ballot size limits, an individual should be designated either a player or contributor based on what the voter perceives to be the individual's greater role with the franchise. An individual should not be listed as either a player or contributor merely to facilitate ballot space for the other category.
    - Multiple Franchises: An individual may be considered and elected by multiple franchises.


    Defunct NL teams - ROUND ONE
    This election will end on Friday, April 2, 2011, at 11:59:59 p.m. EDT

    I will, unlike the companion franchise project, be using fixed lists of eligible players. I have striven to come up with rather comprehensive lists, but if you 1) are willing to vote for a candidate you nominate, and 2) provide at least some idea of why you think others should join you in that vote, I will consider adding anyone who meets the criteria of the group.

    The players are broken into pitchers and position players, with a list of the teams that fit this category. You can consider the contributions from multiple teams as all fitting this category.

    Pitchers
    Lady Baldwin Det
    Henry Boyle ind/StL Maroons
    George Bradley Cle/Pro/Tro
    Pete Conway Det/Buf/KC
    Bert Cunningham Lou
    Nig Cuppy Cle
    One Arm Daily Was/Buf/Cle/StL Maroons
    Jim Devlin Lou
    Pud Galvin Buf
    Charlie Getzien Det/Cle/Ind
    Henry Gruber Det/Cle
    Egyptian Healy Ind/Was/Bal/Lou/StL Maroons
    George Hemming Lou/Bal/Cle
    Tim Keefe Tro
    Al Maul Was/Bal
    Jim McCormick Ind/Cle/Pro
    Sadie McMahon Bal
    Win Mercer Was
    Hank O'Day Was
    Lee Richmond Wor/Pro
    Dupee Shaw Was/Pro/Det
    Scott Stratton Lou
    Charlie Sweeney Pro/StL Maroons
    Monte Ward Pro
    Mickey Welch Tro
    Jim Whitney Was/KC/Ind
    Stump Wiedman Buf/Det/KC

    Position players
    Charlie Abbey Was
    Charley Bassett Pro/KC/Ind
    Harry Blake Cle
    Steve Brodie Bal
    Tom Brown Lou/Was/Ind
    Cliff Carroll Pro/Was
    Ed Cartwright Was
    Cupid Childs Cle
    Fred Clarke Lou
    Billy Clingman Lou
    Roger Connor Tro
    George Davis Cle
    Gene DeMontreville Was/Bal
    Jerry Denny Pro/Ind/Cle/Lou/StL Maroons
    Jim Donnelly Was/Ind/Bal/KC/Det
    Tommy Dowd Was/Cle
    Fred Dunlap Cle/Det/StL Maroons
    Buck Ewing Tro/Cle
    Jake Evans Tro/Cle/Wor
    Duke Farrell Was
    Jack Farrell Pro/Was/Syr
    Bob Ferguson Har/Tro
    Davy Force Buf/Was/Ath
    Barney Gilligan Pro/Cle/Was
    Ned Hanlon Det/Cle
    Paul Hines Pro/Was/Ind
    Pete Hotaling Cle/Wor
    Dummy Hoy Lou/Was
    Arthur Irwin Wor/Pro/Was
    Hughie Jennings Bal/Lou
    Bill Joyce Was
    Connie Mack Was
    Jimmy McAleer Cle
    Chippy McGarr Cle
    Jack McGeachey Det/Ind
    John McGraw Bal
    Deacon McGuire Was/Det
    Ed McKean Cle
    Mike Muldoon Cle
    George Myers Buf/Ind/ StL Maroons
    John O'Brien Lou/Was/Bal
    Jack O'Connor Cle
    Jim O'Rourke Pro/Buf/Was
    Fred Pfeffer Lou/Tro
    Bill Phillips Cle
    Blondie Purcell Buf/Bal/Syr/Cle
    Joe Quinn Was/Cle/Bal/StL Maroons
    Paul Radford Was/Pro/Cle/KC
    Heinie Reitz Bal/Was
    Hardy Richardson Buf/Det/Was
    Wilbert Robinson Bal
    Jack Rowe Buf/Det
    Emmett Seery Ind/Lou/StL Maroons
    Kip Selbach Was
    Orator Shaffer Ind/Cle/Buf/StL Maroons
    Billy Shindle Bal/Det
    Joe Start Pro/Har/Was
    Patsy Tebeau Cle
    Sam Thompson Det
    Larry Twitchell Det/Lou/Was/Cle
    Jake Virtue Cle
    Farmer Weaver Lou
    Deacon White Buf/Det/Cle
    George Wood Det/Bal/Wor
    Tom York Har/Pro/Cle
    Chief Zimmer Cle

    Contributors
    Frank Bancroft
    Barney Dreyfus
    Bob Ferguson
    Ned Hanlon
    Harry Pulliam
    Fred Stearns
    Patsy Tebeau
    Bill Watkins
    Last edited by jalbright; 03-19-2011, 09:57 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  • #2
    The previous results, 7 player ballots, 5 contributor ballots (six votes minimum needed to elect, 75% of the vote if there are 7 or more votes)

    Players
    5 Pud Galvin
    5 Hughie Jennings
    4 Paul Hines
    4 Hardy Richardson
    3 Cupid Childs
    3 Jim McCormick
    3 John McGraw
    3 Joe Start
    3 Deacon White
    2 Roger Connor
    2 George Davis
    2 Fred Dunlap
    2 Buck Ewing
    2 Tim Keefe
    2 Jim O'Rourke
    2 Monte Ward
    1 Nig Cuppy
    1 Jack Farrell
    1 Deacon McGuire
    1 Ed McKean
    1 Sam Thompson


    Contributors
    5 Ned Hanlon
    4 Frank Bancroft
    4 Bob Ferguson
    2 Barney Dreyfus
    2 Harry Pulliam
    2 Fred Stearns
    1 Jack Chapman
    1 Patsy Tebeau
    1 Bill Watkins
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #3
      There are two guys I think should unquestionably get in this time--John McGraw and Hughie Jennings. They were key parts of the Baltimore Oriole juggernaut of the 1890's, and both were very productive for several years. Jennings had 150 win shares or 41.3 WAR in five consecutive years in Baltimore--that's consistent MVP level-play for that time. John McGraw had only 90 PA in 1896, but for the three years before and the three years after that in Baltimore, he had 149 win shares and 37.6 WAR. Averaging 24.8 win shares a season for six years or 6.2 WAR is definitely all-star caliber play--and for quite a stretch, with a championship winning team to boot. There's no way either of them should be excluded.
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

      Comment


      • #4
        My ballot

        Players:
        Cupid Childs
        Fred Clarke
        Nig Cuppy
        Pud Galvin
        Paul Hines
        Hughie Jennings
        Jim McCormick
        John McGraw
        Ed McKean
        Sadie McMahon
        Hardy Richardson
        Jack Rowe
        Monte Ward
        Deacon White
        Chief Zimmer

        Contributors
        Frank Bancroft
        Bob Ferguson
        Ned Hanlon
        Last edited by jalbright; 04-01-2011, 05:42 PM.
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment


        • #5
          Players (15)
          Paul Hines
          Joe Start
          Monte Ward
          Jim Galvin
          Hardy Richardson
          Jack Rowe
          Deacon White
          Fred Dunlap
          Jim McCormick
          Cupid Childs
          Nig Cuppy
          Ed McKean
          Chief Zimmer
          Hugh Jennings
          John McGraw

          others?: John Clapp (five defunct teams in six seasons)
          : Tom York, Jack Farrell, Sam Thompson, Deacon McGuire, Fred Clarke


          Contributors (5, pending discussion)
          Frank Bancroft
          Jack Chapman
          Bob Ferguson
          Ned Hanlon
          Fred Stearns

          others: Patsy Tebeau
          Last edited by Paul Wendt; 03-28-2011, 07:38 AM. Reason: add, add, add, firstnames, complete this

          Comment


          • #6
            Players:

            Cupid Childs
            Nig Cuppy
            Pud Galvin
            Paul Hines
            Hughie Jennings
            Tim Keefe
            Jim McCormick
            John McGraw
            Deacon McGuire
            Jim O'Rourke
            Hardy Richardson
            Jack Rowe
            Joe Start
            Deacon White
            Chief Zimmer

            Contributors:

            Bob Ferguson
            Ned Hanlon
            Monte Ward

            I don't know enough about Frank Bancroft's role as it relates to defunct teams. If anyone wants to make a case for him, I'm listening.
            Last edited by jjpm74; 03-23-2011, 01:15 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Here's what was in the last thread on contributors:

              In Paul Wendt's ballot:
              Frank Bancroft, Wor/Det/Cle/Pro/Ind [founding manager/gm Wor & Det, winning manager Pro, ?John Brush rhm Ind?]
              Jack Chapman, Lou/Mil/Wor/Det/Buf/Lou manager
              Bob Ferguson, Har/Tro manager (among stints with other mlb teams)
              Ned Hanlon Det/Cle [Baltimore manager/gm & minority owner]
              Patsy Tebeau Cle [captain/manager]
              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

              Comment


              • #8
                The slow start may mean this will be the last round for this particular group. It might be even with more participation, though. In any event, the lack of votes is not a good sign.
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Players
                  Cupid Childs
                  Nig Cuppy
                  Jim Devlin
                  Fred Dunlap
                  Pud Galvin
                  Paul Hines
                  Hughie Jennings
                  Jim McCormick
                  John McGraw
                  Ed McKean
                  Hardy Richardson
                  Jack Rowe
                  Joe Start
                  Monte Ward
                  Deacon White

                  Sorry, I meant to vote in the last round too.
                  *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DJC View Post
                    Sorry, I meant to vote in the last round too.
                    No need to apologize--heck, I'm happy to see another voter!
                    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Players:

                      Cupid Childs
                      Roger Connor
                      George Davis
                      Fred Dunlap
                      Buck Ewing
                      Pud Galvin
                      Paul Hines
                      Hughie Jennings
                      Tim Keefe
                      Ed McKean
                      Hardy Richardson
                      Joe Start
                      Sam Thompson
                      Monte Ward
                      Deacon White

                      Conttributors:

                      Barney Dreyfuss
                      Ned Hanlon
                      Bob Ferguson
                      Harry Pulliam

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                        Players:

                        Cupid Childs
                        Nig Cuppy
                        Duke Farrell ...
                        Duke Farrell didn't play much for defunct teams.
                        Do you mean Jack Farrell, who tallied one vote last round? He was the heart and soul of the Great Gray Machine.
                        Last edited by Paul Wendt; 03-23-2011, 12:05 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Paul Wendt View Post
                          Duke Farrell didn't play much for defunct teams.
                          Do you mean Jack Farrell, who tallied one vote last round? He was the heart and soul of the Great Gray Machine.
                          Nope, I meant Jack Rowe. I got Duke Farrell's career profile and Jack Rowe's career profile mixed up in my database. Whoops.

                          Jack Farrell is in my queue along with a handful of others f this makes it to a 3rd round and we elect anyone this time around.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ace Venom, Beady and Brad Harris all voted in the last election, and have yet to do so this time. If I don't get ballots from them by Monday, I'll send them a follow up PM.
                            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Reminder PMs sent.
                              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                              Comment

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