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American Association (19th century) HOF, round 2

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  • American Association (19th century) HOF, round 2

    We have already elected the following:

    Players
    Pete Browning
    Bob Caruthers
    Dave Foutz
    Guy Hecker
    Silver King
    Bid McPhee
    Tony Mullane
    Tip O'Neill
    Dave Orr
    Harry Stovey

    Contributors
    Chris von der Ahe
    Charlie Commiskey

    To make sure there's no confusion this time, please note this election is limited to the 19th century names listed below.

    Most of the rules are identical to those in the Franchise Hall of Fame project, but with the notable additions of fixed candidate lists (which can be added to) and some clarifications for the group in question and a strong request that you make my job of tabulating the votes easier by listing players in alphabetical order. If I do not get sufficient compliance with this request, I will make it a requirement of an eligible ballot.

    PLEASE READ THE FORMAT AND RULES SECTION BEFORE VOTING. THANK YOU.

    FORMAT AND RULES

    Purpose: The purpose of this project is to create a Hall of Fame for each group whereby each group will honor those individuals whose contributions and accomplishments are most notable, significant, and enduring to that group's history. This project is not about simply honoring those with the best statistics with each group.

    Standards: Each grouping has its own unique history and context, and thus contributions and accomplishments that may stand out remarkably within one franchise's history, may not be so remarkable in another grouping's history. Standards from group to group will inherently vary, and thus there should be no impetus to create equal standards among the groups or to aspire to the standards of the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Consequently, subjectivity within the context of the group in question will play an inevitable role when considering an individual's contributions and accomplishments with respect to that franchise. In sum, a group’s Hall of Fame should be unaffected by the standards and contexts of other franchises or groups as well as the National Baseball Hall of Fame, and should be entirely a product of its own history.

    Election Format: Elections will be conducted one group at a time and each election will last approximately two weeks, as these groups require more research than the franchises do IMHO..
    - Ballot Size: Voters can select up to 15 players and 5 contributors per election. There is no minimum ballot size after the first round. In the first round, you must name at least one person in each election in which you wish to participate. However, if you wish to cast a blank ballot in subsequent rounds, you must specify that you are casting a blank ballot, i.e., voting for no one.
    - Ballot Editing: To account for ongoing discussion, voters may edit their ballots as often as necessary through the end of an election.
    - Election Percentage: Any individual that is listed on at least 75% of either the player or contributor submitted ballots will be elected to that team's Hall of Fame. In instances where an individual receive votes as both a player and a contributor, that individual will be elected if listed on at least 75% of ballots in either category or if the individual's combined vote total is at least 75% of the category with the greatest number of ballots submitted. However, a candidate needs a minimum of six votes to be elected.
    - Subsequent Rounds: After an election has been performed for each of my special elections (we will have a Defunct NL teams election, an American Association election, and a pre-1876 election as well), a second round of elections will commence, again proceeding in the original order. A third round of elections (and perhaps beyond) may also be held depending on interest.

    Eligibility:
    - Players: Play for 19th century American Association teams are all eligible to be considered. However, only play for such teams is to be considered. The teams the players are eligible to be considered for are part of the master list.
    - Contributors: Individuals that contributed in other capacities to the defunct teams may be considered, including managers, coaches, executives, owners, and broadcasters.
    - Multiple Capacities: The totality of contributions and accomplishments with respect to a franchise are to be considered, and thus an individual can only be elected once by a franchise. For purposes of ballot size limits, an individual should be designated either a player or contributor based on what the voter perceives to be the individual's greater role with the franchise. An individual should not be listed as either a player or contributor merely to facilitate ballot space for the other category.
    - Multiple Franchises: An individual may be considered and elected by multiple franchises.


    American Association - ROUND ONE
    This election will end on Friday,April 15, 2011, at 11:59:59 p.m. EDT

    I will, unlike the companion franchise project, be using fixed lists of eligible players. I have striven to come up with rather comprehensive lists, but if you 1) are willing to vote for a candidate you nominate, and 2) provide at least some idea of why you think others should join you in that vote, I will consider adding anyone who meets the criteria of the group.

    I only have a few names on the contributor list for this group, but if you cast a ballot listing qualifying names, I'll add them to make a better list. The players are broken into pitchers and position players.

    Contributor
    Billy Barnie
    Charles Byrne
    O.P. Caylor
    Bill McGunnigle
    Denny McKnight
    Zack Phelps
    Gus Schmelz
    Bill Sharsig
    Pop Snyder
    Aaron Stern
    Jimmy Williams
    Wheeler Wykoff

    Pitchers
    Bob Barr
    Elton Chamberlin
    Ed Cushman
    Hardie Henderson
    Tim Keefe
    Matt Kilroy
    Jack Lynch
    Bobby Mathews
    Al Mays
    Jumbo McGinnis
    Sadie McMahon
    Ed Morris
    Henry Porter
    Toad Ramsey
    Ed Seward
    Elmer Smith
    Jack Stivetts
    Scott Stratton
    Adonis Terry
    Gus Weyhing
    Will White

    Position players
    Sam Barkley
    Lou Bierbauer
    Jack Boyle
    Steve Brady
    Tom Brown
    Oyster Burns
    Hick Carpenter
    Hub Collins
    Pop Corkhill
    Jumbo Davis
    Charlie Duffee
    Frank Fennelly
    Shorty Fuller
    Joe Gerhardt
    Bill Gleason
    Bill Greenwood
    Mike Griffin
    Frank Hankinson
    Charley Jones
    Jim Keenan
    John Kerins
    Bill Kuehne
    Henry Larkin
    Arlie Latham
    Denny Lyons
    Reddy Mack
    Fred Mann
    Leech Maskrey
    Tommy McCarthy
    Bill McClellan
    Jim McTamany
    Jocko Milligan
    Candy Nelson
    Hugh Nicol
    Darby O'Brien
    Jack O'Brien
    Bill Phillips
    George Pinckney
    Blondie Purcell
    Paul Radford
    John Reilly
    Wilbert Robinson
    Yank Robinson
    Chief Roseman
    Germany Smith
    Pop Smith
    Pop Snyder
    Joe Sommer
    Ecky Stearns
    Cub Stricker
    Ed Swartwood
    White Wings Tebeau
    Tommy Tucker
    Farmer Weaver
    Curt Welch
    Joe Werrick
    Bill White
    Chicken Wolf
    Last edited by jalbright; 04-06-2011, 12:33 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  • #2
    Players
    Tim Keefe
    Matt Kilroy
    Denny Lyons
    Ed Morris
    Toad Ramsey
    John Reilly
    Ed Seward
    Jack Stivetts
    Curt Welch
    Will White

    Contributors
    O. P. Caylor
    Denny McKnight
    Last edited by jalbright; 04-09-2011, 05:16 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #3
      Players:

      Charley Jones
      Tim Keefe
      Matt Kilroy
      Arlie Latham
      Denny Lyons
      Ed Morris
      John Reilly
      Jack Stivetts
      Will White

      Contributors:

      O.P. Caylor
      Denny McKnight
      Pop Snyder
      Last edited by jjpm74; 04-06-2011, 05:37 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Players
        Ice Box Chamberlin
        Frank Fennelly
        Tim Keefe
        Matt Kilroy
        Arlie Latham
        Denny Lyons
        Sadie McMahon
        Ed Morris
        Toad Ramsey
        John Reilly
        Ed Seward
        Jack Stivetts
        Curt Welch
        Gus Weyhing
        Will White
        *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

        Comment


        • #5
          Players
          Tim Keefe
          Matt Kilroy
          Arlie Latham
          Denny Lyons
          Ed Morris
          Long John Reilly
          Ed Seward
          Jack Stivetts
          Will White

          Contributors
          O.P. Caylor
          Denny McKnight
          "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
          "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
          "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
          "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

          Comment


          • #6
            Players
            Tom Brown
            Ice Box Chamberlain
            Frank Fennelly
            Charley Jones
            Henry Larkin
            Arlie Latham
            Denny Lyons
            Jocko Milligan
            Toad Ramsey
            John Reilly
            Ed Swartwood
            Curt Welch
            Will White
            Chicken Wolf
            -end-

            I didn't vote for anybody with three or less years of AA tenure (Keefe, Stivetts, etc).

            Contributors
            O.P. Caylor
            Denny McKnight

            Since these are the only two receiving votes, these are the two I researched. They both look worthy to me.
            http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

            Comment


            • #7
              Ice Box Chamberlain
              Tim Keefe
              Matt Kilroy
              Denny Lyons
              Ed Morris
              Jack Stivetts
              Curt Welch
              Will White

              Contributors
              O.P Caylor
              Denny McKnight
              Pop Synder

              Comment


              • #8
                tentative

                Contributor
                Billy Barnie
                Charles Byrne
                O.P. Caylor
                Denny McKnight
                Zack Phelps

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here is round one, specifically Beady's notes on contributors.
                  The official tallies are posted at #23.
                  Last edited by Paul Wendt; 04-05-2011, 08:58 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here's the results for the unelected players and contributors from last election:

                    players first with nine votes, 7 needed for election:
                    Code:
                    6	Matt Kilroy
                    6	Denny Lyons
                    6	Ed Morris
                    5	Will White
                    5	Tim Keefe
                    3	Arlie Latham
                    3	John Reilly
                    3	Jack Stivetts
                    3	Curt Welch
                    2	Elton Chamberlin
                    2	Charley Jones
                    1	Hub Collins
                    1	Charlie Commiskey
                    1	Frank Fennelly
                    1	Mike Griffin
                    1	Henry Larkin
                    1	Tommy McCarthy
                    1	Jocko Milligan
                    1	Toad Ramsey
                    1	Ed Seward
                    1	Pop Snyder
                    1	Adonis Terry
                    1	Bill White
                    The contributor ballot results (8 votes, 6 needed for election):
                    Code:
                    5	Denny McKnight
                    4	O. P. Caylor
                    3	Pop Snyder
                    2	Billy Barnie
                    2	Charles Byrne
                    1	Zack Phelps
                    1	Gus Schmeltz
                    1	Bill Sharsig
                    Last edited by jalbright; 04-05-2011, 05:58 PM.
                    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      We now have six voters, so we have the bare minimum needed to elect candidates.
                      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        We're supposed to use only time spent in the American Association, right? Just double-checking; I think reads that play for defunct NL teams can be included.

                        One guy w/ a lack of votes that jumps out to me is Henry Larkin. He spent seven years in the AA for the Athletics, with a low OPS+ of 122 and a high of 175. His level of slugging would make a number of team halls of fame today, including mine (though the Orioles Hall of Fame is pretty lenient).
                        Last edited by J W; 04-06-2011, 10:25 AM.
                        http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          One vote for Bill White? Wow.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            in progress

                            Players
                            Charley Jones
                            Henry Larkin
                            Arlie Latham
                            Denny Lyons
                            John Reilly
                            Yank Robinson
                            Pop Snyder
                            Curt Welch
                            WVW Chicken Wolf
                            ?

                            others: ... Oyster Burns, Mike Griffin, George Pinkney, Jocko Milligan, Ed Swartwood ... Tommy McCarthy
                            others: Chamberlain, Keefe, Kilroy, Morris, Ramsay, Seward, Stivetts, White

                            Last edited by Paul Wendt; 04-06-2011, 11:36 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by J W View Post
                              We're supposed to use only time spent in the American Association, right? Just double-checking; I think reads that play for defunct NL teams can be included.

                              One guy w/ a lack of votes that jumps out to me is Henry Larkin. He spent seven years in the AA for the Athletics, with a low OPS+ of 122 and a high of 175. His level of slugging would make a number of team halls of fame today, including mine (though the Orioles Hall of Fame is pretty lenient).
                              Yes, we're talking just about time in the AA in the 19th century. What is causing the confusion? I want to know so that I can make sure it's as clear as possible should we have another round (though with all the short ballots, I kind of doubt it).
                              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                              Comment

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