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  • How is Ted Simmons not in HOF?

    should ted "simba" simmons be in the hall? he was the second best catcher in the 70's (next to Bench) and his career numbers are better than a HOFer, Carter. he consistently had a .300 or higher AVG, and hit 20+ homers 3 or 4 times. isnt that Hall worthy?
    82
    Yes
    69.51%
    57
    Maybe
    17.07%
    14
    No
    13.41%
    11
    I think, therefore I love the Dodgers.

  • #2
    Simmons is way behind Carter in PO, A, leading league in either, and not quite so good in SB allowed/CS, FWIW
    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
    Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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    • #3
      At the very least, Simmons deserved a lot more consideration than the one and done treatment he received from the writers.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by RuthMayBond
        Simmons is way behind Carter in PO, A, leading league in either, and not quite so good in SB allowed/CS, FWIW
        i am not talking about defense here, most will say that simmons lacked a little in the defensive category, but simmons should make it just because of his offensive ability. he at least deserved to last more than one year of hall of fame voting.
        Last edited by pjwvolk; 01-04-2005, 09:33 AM.
        I think, therefore I love the Dodgers.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by pjwvolk
          i am not talking about defense here, most will say that simmons lacked a little in the defensive category, but simmons should make it just because of his offensive ability. he at least deserved to last more than one year of hall of fame voting.
          You'd be hard pressed to find someone around here who would argue that point. Simmons is at the top of the list of writer snubs.

          He was a fine player, a local guy I wish the Tigers would have had, although Lance Parrish was not much of a drop off.
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          • #6
            I would easily vote for Simmons for the Baseball Hall of Fame.

            Comment


            • #7
              I would say that Simmons should be the next catcher elected among eligibles (unless they fool around until after IRod and Piazza have been retired at least five years).
              Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
              Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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              • #8
                CAREER
                MODERN (1900-2003)
                C
                PLATE APPEARANCES >= 5000


                AVERAGE AVG
                1 Mickey Cochrane .320
                2 Mike Piazza .319
                3 Bill Dickey .313
                4 Ernie Lombardi .306
                5 Ivan Rodriguez .304
                6 Manny Sanguillen .298
                7 Gabby Hartnett .297
                8 Ted Simmons .292
                9 Thurman Munson .292
                10 Wally Schang .288
                11 Yogi Berra .285
                12 Walker Cooper .285
                13 Jimmie Wilson .284
                14 Rick Ferrell .281
                15 Muddy Ruel .275
                16 Tim McCarver .272
                17 Terry Steinbach .271
                18 Carlton Fisk .269
                19 Johnny Bench .267
                20 Gus Mancuso .265

                C

                BPA BPA
                1 Mike Piazza .581
                2 Mickey Cochrane .557
                3 Bill Dickey .532
                4 Gabby Hartnett .531
                5 Johnny Bench .514
                6 Yogi Berra .510
                7 Wally Schang .503
                8 Carlton Fisk .496
                9 Ivan Rodriguez .491
                10 Darrell Porter .474
                11 Gary Carter .470
                12 Walker Cooper .470
                13 Ted Simmons .468
                14 Ernie Lombardi .460
                15 Lance Parrish .457
                16 Frankie Hayes .451
                17 Bill Freehan .449
                18 Sherm Lollar .448
                19 Rick Ferrell .441
                20 Terry Steinbach .433

                C

                DOUBLES 2B
                1 Ted Simmons 413
                2 Carlton Fisk 398
                3 Gabby Hartnett 396
                4 Ivan Rodriguez 380
                5 Gary Carter 351
                6 Bill Dickey 343
                7 Johnny Bench 342
                8 Mickey Cochrane 333
                9 Rick Ferrell 324
                10 Benito Santiago 312
                11 Yogi Berra 310
                12 Lance Parrish 305
                13 Bob Boone 303
                14 Tony Pena 298
                15 Ernie Lombardi 277
                16 Terry Steinbach 273
                17 Luke Sewell 272
                18 Mike Piazza 264
                19 Rollie Hemsley 257
                20 Jimmie Wilson 252

                C

                HITS H
                1 Carlton Fisk 2269
                2 Ted Simmons 2116
                3 Yogi Berra 2043
                4 Bill Dickey 1969
                5 Gary Carter 1956
                6 Gabby Hartnett 1912
                7 Ivan Rodriguez 1875
                8 Bob Boone 1838
                9 Johnny Bench 1811
                10 Ernie Lombardi 1792
                11 Lance Parrish 1782
                12 Benito Santiago 1776
                13 Mike Piazza 1708
                14 Rick Ferrell 1692
                15 Tony Pena 1687
                16 Mickey Cochrane 1652
                17 Thurman Munson 1558
                18 Al Lopez 1547
                19 Jim Sundberg 1493
                20 Bill Freehan 1459


                C

                HOMERUNS HR
                1 Carlton Fisk 366
                2 Mike Piazza 358
                3 Johnny Bench 356
                4 Yogi Berra 336
                5 Lance Parrish 324
                6 Gary Carter 307
                7 Roy Campanella 242
                8 Gabby Hartnett 236
                9 Ivan Rodriguez 231
                10 Ted Simmons 222
                11 Javier Lopez 214
                12 Benito Santiago 211
                13 Bill Dickey 202
                14 Todd Hundley 199
                15 Ernie Lombardi 190
                16 Bill Freehan 182
                17 Darrell Porter 181
                18 Del Crandall 179
                19 Walker Cooper 173
                20 Andy Seminick 164

                C

                ISOLATED POWER ISO
                1 Mike Piazza .252
                2 Johnny Bench .215
                3 Yogi Berra .198
                4 Gabby Hartnett .192
                5 Lance Parrish .188
                6 Carlton Fisk .188
                7 Ivan Rodriguez .184
                8 Walker Cooper .178
                9 Gary Carter .178
                10 Bill Dickey .173
                11 Darrell Porter .161
                12 Ted Simmons .161
                13 Mickey Cochrane .158
                14 Ernie Lombardi .154
                15 Benito Santiago .152
                16 Del Crandall .150
                17 Terry Steinbach .149
                18 Bill Freehan .147
                19 Frankie Hayes .141
                20 Sherm Lollar .138

                C

                OPS OPS
                1 Mike Piazza .959
                2 Mickey Cochrane .897
                3 Bill Dickey .868
                4 Gabby Hartnett .858
                5 Ivan Rodriguez .832
                6 Yogi Berra .832
                7 Johnny Bench .826
                8 Ernie Lombardi .818
                9 Ted Simmons .808
                10 Wally Schang .800
                11 Carlton Fisk .799
                12 Walker Cooper .796
                13 Gary Carter .773
                14 Darrell Porter .762
                15 Sherm Lollar .759
                16 Thurman Munson .756
                17 Lance Parrish .753
                18 Terry Steinbach .746
                19 Bill Freehan .745
                20 Frankie Hayes .744


                C

                OWP OWP
                1 Mike Piazza .704
                2 Bill Dickey .644
                3 Mickey Cochrane .643
                4 Yogi Berra .629
                5 Gabby Hartnett .610
                6 Johnny Bench .607
                7 Wally Schang .592
                8 Ted Simmons .591
                9 Carlton Fisk .575
                10 Ernie Lombardi .575
                11 Thurman Munson .571
                12 Darrell Porter .567
                13 Gary Carter .557
                14 Bill Freehan .547
                15 Walker Cooper .543
                16 Ivan Rodriguez .534
                17 Tim McCarver .515
                18 Sherm Lollar .508
                19 Manny Sanguillen .504
                20 Mike Scioscia .498
                C

                RBI RBI
                1 Yogi Berra 1369
                2 Carlton Fisk 1288
                3 Johnny Bench 1259
                4 Bill Dickey 1209
                5 Ted Simmons 1195
                6 Gabby Hartnett 1179
                7 Gary Carter 1157
                8 Mike Piazza 1107
                9 Lance Parrish 1070
                10 Ernie Lombardi 990
                11 Ivan Rodriguez 914
                12 Benito Santiago 897
                13 Roy Campanella 856
                14 Mickey Cochrane 832
                15 Bob Boone 826
                16 Walker Cooper 812
                17 Sherm Lollar 808
                18 Darrell Porter 805
                19 Terry Steinbach 745
                20 Rick Ferrell 734 C

                RCAA RCAA
                1 Mike Piazza 433
                2 Bill Dickey 339
                3 Yogi Berra 312
                4 Mickey Cochrane 303
                5 Gabby Hartnett 254
                6 Johnny Bench 247
                7 Ted Simmons 217
                8 Carlton Fisk 216
                9 Gene Tenace 160
                10 Joe Torre 159
                11 Wally Schang 152
                12 Gary Carter 142
                13 Ernie Lombardi 138
                14 Roy Campanella 135
                15 Roger Bresnahan 132
                16 Darrell Porter 123
                17 Smoky Burgess 118
                18 Mickey Tettleton 115
                19 Thurman Munson 113
                T20 Chris Hoiles 99
                T20 Jason Kendall 99

                C

                RCAP RCAP
                1 Mike Piazza 528
                2 Bill Dickey 473
                3 Yogi Berra 430
                4 Mickey Cochrane 425
                5 Gabby Hartnett 364
                6 Carlton Fisk 360
                7 Johnny Bench 347
                8 Ted Simmons 321
                9 Gary Carter 251
                10 Wally Schang 249
                11 Ivan Rodriguez 244
                12 Ernie Lombardi 241
                13 Joe Torre 222
                14 Roger Bresnahan 214
                15 Roy Campanella 206
                16 Smoky Burgess 194
                17 Darrell Porter 193
                18 Jorge Posada 181
                19 Jason Kendall 178
                T20 Gene Tenace 177
                T20 Mickey Tettleton 177

                C

                RUNS CREATED RC
                1 Carlton Fisk 1320
                2 Bill Dickey 1223
                3 Yogi Berra 1214
                4 Gabby Hartnett 1179
                5 Mike Piazza 1130
                6 Ted Simmons 1116
                7 Johnny Bench 1109
                8 Mickey Cochrane 1104
                9 Gary Carter 1090
                10 Ivan Rodriguez 972
                11 Lance Parrish 924
                12 Ernie Lombardi 910
                13 Rick Ferrell 900
                14 Darrell Porter 816
                15 Benito Santiago 806
                16 Wally Schang 805
                17 Bob Boone 783
                18 Bill Freehan 779
                19 Sherm Lollar 775
                20 Roy Campanella 758 C

                RUNS CREATED/GAME RC/G
                1 Mike Piazza 7.85
                2 Mickey Cochrane 7.73
                3 Bill Dickey 7.21
                4 Gabby Hartnett 6.57
                5 Yogi Berra 6.15
                6 Wally Schang 6.04
                7 Ivan Rodriguez 5.69
                8 Johnny Bench 5.69
                9 Ernie Lombardi 5.64
                10 Ted Simmons 5.49
                11 Carlton Fisk 5.47
                12 Walker Cooper 5.29
                13 Rick Ferrell 5.24
                14 Darrell Porter 5.14
                15 Gary Carter 5.04
                16 Sherm Lollar 4.97 C

                RUNS CREATED/GAME RC/G
                1 Mike Piazza 7.85
                2 Mickey Cochrane 7.73
                3 Bill Dickey 7.21
                4 Gabby Hartnett 6.57
                5 Yogi Berra 6.15
                6 Wally Schang 6.04
                7 Ivan Rodriguez 5.69
                8 Johnny Bench 5.69
                9 Ernie Lombardi 5.64
                10 Ted Simmons 5.49
                11 Carlton Fisk 5.47
                12 Walker Cooper 5.29
                13 Rick Ferrell 5.24
                14 Darrell Porter 5.14
                15 Gary Carter 5.04
                16 Sherm Lollar 4.97
                17 Frankie Hayes 4.91
                18 Thurman Munson 4.82
                19 Bill Freehan 4.79 C

                SECONDARY AVERAGE SEC
                1 Mike Piazza .364
                2 Johnny Bench .339
                3 Mickey Cochrane .328
                4 Darrell Porter .324
                5 Gabby Hartnett .304
                6 Carlton Fisk .295
                7 Yogi Berra .291
                8 Wally Schang .287
                9 Bill Dickey .282
                10 Gary Carter .281
                11 Lance Parrish .274
                12 Frankie Hayes .269
                13 Sherm Lollar .265
                14 Ted Simmons .258
                15 Bill Freehan .251
                16 Ivan Rodriguez .249
                17 Walker Cooper .247
                18 Rick Dempsey .240
                19 John Roseboro .237
                20 Butch Wynegar .236

                C

                TOTAL AVERAGE TA
                1 Mike Piazza .955
                2 Mickey Cochrane .947
                3 Bill Dickey .857
                4 Gabby Hartnett .845
                5 Wally Schang .822
                6 Johnny Bench .798
                7 Yogi Berra .791
                8 Carlton Fisk .763
                9 Ivan Rodriguez .761
                10 Ted Simmons .745
                11 Darrell Porter .744
                12 Ernie Lombardi .734
                13 Gary Carter .721
                14 Walker Cooper .716
                15 Sherm Lollar .714
                16 Rick Ferrell .706
                17 Frankie Hayes .692
                18 Bill Freehan .691
                19 Lance Parrish .680
                20 Thurman Munson .668

                C

                TOTAL BASES TB
                1 Carlton Fisk 3855
                2 Yogi Berra 3459
                3 Gary Carter 3288
                4 Ted Simmons 3281
                5 Johnny Bench 3265
                6 Gabby Hartnett 3144
                7 Lance Parrish 3113
                8 Bill Dickey 3062
                9 Mike Piazza 3058
                10 Ivan Rodriguez 3010
                11 Benito Santiago 2801
                12 Ernie Lombardi 2693
                13 Bob Boone 2508
                14 Mickey Cochrane 2470
                15 Tony Pena 2360
                16 Bill Freehan 2289
                17 Terry Steinbach 2254
                18 Darrell Porter 2211 C

                WALKS BB
                1 Rick Ferrell 931
                2 Darrell Porter 875
                3 Mickey Cochrane 857
                4 Carlton Fisk 839
                5 Johnny Bench 813
                6 Gary Carter 776
                7 Wally Schang 745
                8 Ted Simmons 720
                9 Gabby Hartnett 703
                10 Jim Sundberg 699
                11 Bill Dickey 678
                12 Sherm Lollar 671
                13 Yogi Berra 669
                14 Bob Boone 663
                15 Ray Schalk 638
                16 Mickey Tettleton 635
                17 Butch Wynegar 626
                18 Lance Parrish 612
                19 Muddy Ruel 606
                20 Mike Piazza 598

                There is the batting side of it. I'll do a study after the OU game tonight.
                If someone else wants to do defense,great.

                He IS a HOFer.


                Ok, using the old 20pts. for 1st, down to 1pt for 20th.
                here goes:

                291-Mike Piazza
                287-Bill Dickey*
                285-Gabby Hartnett*
                281-Yogi Berra*
                264-Carlton Fisk*
                263-Johnny Bench*
                256-Mickey Cochrane*
                233-Ted Simmons
                196-Gary Carter*
                193-Ivan Rodriguez
                157-Ernie Lombardi*
                149-Wally Schang
                123-Darrell Porter
                112-Lance Parrish
                102-Rick Ferrell*
                82-Walker Cooper
                60-Benito Santiago
                52-Sherm Lollar
                46-Bob Boone
                41-Bill Freehan

                *-Hall of Famer


                Piazza and Ivan Rodriguez will be Hall of Famers when eligible, leaving Ted Simmons alone among the top 10 not enshrined.

                Simmons, offensively, matches up very well with the HOFers.


                al
                Last edited by nightal; 01-05-2005, 11:02 PM.
                Waner, Mantle, Bench, Nightal?

                Comment


                • #9
                  That particular list shows a sharp dropoff from Simmons to Carter, and from Rodriguez to Lombardi...

                  I consider Simmons right on that borderline, or rather that's where he should be. He would be in my personal HOF, because I feel that some semblance of continuity should be held in numbers thoughout the positions (C is second scarcest behind 3B in the Hall, and even then, several of them are iffy picks).
                  http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yes he should.He was overshadowed by Bench and played during a time of fine catchers,Sanguillen,Fisk, Munson etc but doggone it he could flat hit and steady. I posted similar to this last year and also believe Al Belle should be shown in.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ted Simmons

                      what do you think (poll version this time)
                      I think, therefore I love the Dodgers.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        --"Of course" is stronger than I would be likely to phase it, but his cumlative hitting record as a catcher is right up near the top. He was an okay defensive catcher as a young player, although he fell off pretty hard as he aged. He, Joe Torre and Bill Freehan are the three best catchers not in and it wouldn't be hard to pick three worse current Coopertown catchers to trade out for them if that was the way these things are done. I think Simmons will eventually get picked by the VC.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don't think anyone will ever again be picked by the VC under its present format.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ted Simmons was a great hitter and catcher considering the era in which he played.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Simmons had the most hits of any catcher...ever. His defense is underatted, and well, he is a Cardinal. Enough for me.
                              1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                              1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                              1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                              The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                              The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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